If you register, you can do a lot more. And become an active part of our growing community. You'll have access to hidden forums, and enjoy the ability of replying and starting conversations.

GWSR Broadway Developments

Discussion in 'Heritage Railways & Centres in the UK' started by Breva, Aug 1, 2014.

  1. davidarnold

    davidarnold Member

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2006
    Messages:
    436
    Likes Received:
    392
    But aren't you making my point?

    The men who built this were heroes all. They transported Monmouth Troy Station and rebuilt it brick by brick over years.

    Then years later all their hard work and striving for authenticity is undone when a public toilet lookalike ( and home from home for Kinghambranch) is dumped next to it in six months by Contractors with out any consultation with these same volunteers.
     
    Mark Thompson likes this.
  2. flying scotsman123

    flying scotsman123 Resident of Nat Pres

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2013
    Messages:
    10,440
    Likes Received:
    17,941
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Cheltenham
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    I personally know some of those same volunteers who are content with it.

    Sent from my Moto G (4) using Tapatalk
     
    Kinghambranch likes this.
  3. Mark Thompson

    Mark Thompson Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2017
    Messages:
    1,430
    Likes Received:
    3,563
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    E sussex
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    It' a very good point you make, Tom, although one which takes a certain degree of aesthetic courage to consider, let alone carry off successfully. I've thought for a long time that (for instance) the south end of Sheffield Park would have looked so much better if the catering/shop blocks had been designed to visually "step back" from the existing station, rather than compete with it, up to the point of becoming a small pastiche estate of Myres station houses.
    Natural materials, eg. rough sawn timber cladding which would, in time, weather down to a naturally unobtrusive appearance could maybe work well for the "big shed" which is planned for the up yard at HK, rather than be another big green and cream warehouse.
    Sorry, seem to have veered off topic a little here!
     
  4. Kinghambranch

    Kinghambranch Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2006
    Messages:
    1,868
    Likes Received:
    1,588
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Retired
    Location:
    White Rose County
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    No. I'm not making your point. The new structure is not a replacement for the main ex-Monmouth Troy Station building (a large part of which was built by YTS personnel until the YTS folded) it's an addition that was made possible in part by a legacy. It's not great but I'll continue to be of the opinion that its quite OK and, indeed, this time next year, it will look better than it does now. Give these things a little time I'd say.
     
  5. paulhitch

    paulhitch Guest

    The "Bessemer Arms" bit of Sheffield Park was built quite some time ago and I am sure, if done today, would have a more appropriate bricklaying bond as well as avoiding that fudge coloured brick!

    PH
     
  6. Mark Thompson

    Mark Thompson Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2017
    Messages:
    1,430
    Likes Received:
    3,563
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    E sussex
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    Might take a bit more than Flemish Bond to stop the Bessemer Arms looking like SP station's bigger and uglier brother!
    It's a pity, because as a catering outlet it works so very well.
     
  7. 30854

    30854 Resident of Nat Pres

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2017
    Messages:
    12,172
    Likes Received:
    11,493
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Retired
    Location:
    Brighton&Hove
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    .... and in my experience, has a jolly good menu and a decent cellar which allows it to do so. :)
     
    Mark Thompson likes this.
  8. Breva

    Breva Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2010
    Messages:
    2,158
    Likes Received:
    3,790
    Location:
    Gloucestershire
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    I did not mean there should be a law. What I meant that an entity that is not carrying out its objectives could be considered to be acting ultra vires. My limited recollection of company law during student days does not say what happens next.
     
  9. flying scotsman123

    flying scotsman123 Resident of Nat Pres

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2013
    Messages:
    10,440
    Likes Received:
    17,941
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Cheltenham
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    Surely Tom's point still stands - I doubt the National trust's charitable objectives include robbing people of their money in overpriced modern cafes and shops but they do it anyway!
     
    Kinghambranch and Bluenosejohn like this.
  10. Bean-counter

    Bean-counter Part of the furniture

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2007
    Messages:
    5,844
    Likes Received:
    7,688
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Former NP Member
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    Wow! I had no idea that there NOTHING! Now there is this:

    DSC_3733.JPG

    And all some people can do is complain 'it isn't authentic enough'!

    Steven

    BTW - the new building looks to have very similar stonework to the building on the second platform.
     
    Kinghambranch and Bluenosejohn like this.
  11. Bean-counter

    Bean-counter Part of the furniture

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2007
    Messages:
    5,844
    Likes Received:
    7,688
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Former NP Member
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    If it is an educational charity, then its purpose to to educate and that will be judged by what the building is used for, not what it looks like! Sorry to scupper your thoughts of getting the GWSR Trust in trouble!

    Steven
     
    dwr7903 and Kinghambranch like this.
  12. PaulK

    PaulK New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2017
    Messages:
    32
    Likes Received:
    43
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Gosport
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    Not much point in your suggestion really. It is quite easy to build a timber frame to a GWR design from scratch and then clad that in corrugated iron. In this way you will end up with a much more durable building, that looks the part and for not too much money either.
     
  13. Sidmouth

    Sidmouth Resident of Nat Pres Staff Member Moderator

    Joined:
    Sep 12, 2005
    Messages:
    9,635
    Likes Received:
    8,303
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Alderan !
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    @Bean-counter

    what the GWSR has achieved over the last 30+ years is superb especially when compared to some of its peers at the time (Peak rail, Swindon and Cricklade etc) There is part of me that looks at Winchcombe and feels a little sad that so much effort went into rebuilding Monmouth Troy and Hall Green Signal box and then the modern (but needed and functional) footbridge along with the waiting room pictured and utility block that then detracts . The sum of the parts doesn't add up to what it could have done
     
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2017
  14. davidarnold

    davidarnold Member

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2006
    Messages:
    436
    Likes Received:
    392
    Precisely the point. Well spotted. The waiting room on the right is also clad in Bradstone and is a recent addition. Which is why it matches the new Visitor Centre.

    But no GWR building was ever clad in Bradstone a recent development.

    Compare the detail of the stone on the station. The larger indented stone on the corners. The cut stone surrounds to the windows.The diferent size and colour of the blocks themselves That is the real deal.

    Now look at the boring uniform Bradstone.

    The devil is in the detail. You either get it or you don't.

    Yes the GWSR have done well to get this far, but once British Rail have replaced all their stations with bus stops this is where people will draw their inspiration from as to how stations used to look, And it was nothing like this.

    Sorry if this upsets died in the wool, my railway right or wrong types, but there it is.
     
  15. Kinghambranch

    Kinghambranch Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2006
    Messages:
    1,868
    Likes Received:
    1,588
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Retired
    Location:
    White Rose County
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    No upset dyed in the wool from me. I still believe that Winchcombe station is one of the most pleasant of all the GWSR stations (possibly only to be eclipsed soon by Broadway) and bean-counter's "now" photo is a fine example. The bradstone building will be used for educational purposes as well as Santa stuff so it will fulfil a purpose. Give it a little time. Ideally, Winchcombe Station should have been rebuilt to the original specifications of the original, but the GWSR was only a nascent "upstart" in the mid-1980s and we went with what we could get. That said, I'm sure more genuine heritage style and more "authentic" items will appear. Hayles Abbey Halt is a wonderful example.
     
  16. davidarnold

    davidarnold Member

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2006
    Messages:
    436
    Likes Received:
    392
    A nice thought but the damage is done at Winchcombe. The new visitor centre is by some way the largest structure there and joins two other Broadstone clad buildings, the toilets and waiting room. Winchcombe now presents the same uniformity of appearance of a dull local housing estate with the exceptional station building and the signal box its only saving graces.

    Will things change as you say? I very much doubt it. The Director who said that the Company needed to " expand its retail estate" and agreed a shop rather than cafe at Broadway, has just become your Chairman. Thats the kind of mindset that has blighted the development of the built environment at GWSR since the halcyon days of the Heroes who rebuilt Winchcombe station and the signal box.

    Those were the last fully authentic buildings ( FAB) on your line till Broadway .

    But enough. I shall say no more about Winchcombe. I shall however leave you with two pictures so you can judge how big a miss this building is in terms of authenticity.

    First is the converted original Ashburton Goods shed used as a model for this building. Please note the canopy, the sliding doors and the stonework detailing. There can be no doubt as to its original function. This what could have easily have been recreated at Winchcombe with a little care. People would have paid good money to make it so.

    Ashburton Goods shed.jpg

    Now lets look at the same elevation on the actual building.

    winchcombe station visitor centre.JPG

    That is what you got, and that is why I am so disappointed by it.

    They say in life, be the best you can be. That is also true of the GWSR ,the Board owes that to its hard working volunteers.

    Here they have fallen short.

    My last words on the subject. Sometimes when walking your dog you come across a bright yellow dog turd left by another intestinally challenged dog. Repulsive though it is, its one saving grace is that you saw it from afar and so avoided stepping in it.

    Which are my exact thoughts on this building.
     
    Last edited: Nov 25, 2017
    AndyY and Mark Thompson like this.
  17. mike norris

    mike norris New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2011
    Messages:
    4
    Likes Received:
    5
    Occupation:
    police
    Location:
    long eaton
    David Arnold , I think this railway is great well run with fantastic volunteers. Most people who pay there money to go there don’t really care about the points you make.

    You don’t have to go to the railway there are plenty of others

    So please keep your negative attitude to yourself it’s getting past a joke now
     
  18. flying scotsman123

    flying scotsman123 Resident of Nat Pres

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2013
    Messages:
    10,440
    Likes Received:
    17,941
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Cheltenham
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    It does have a canopy, and it *should* have some sliding doors too. The director you refer to has been a "hero" volunteer since 1982, so may well have been involved in Winchcombe station for all you know. I'd be interested to know your views as to how far up the management chain a volunteer can be before they cease to be a hero - worker in C+W, deputy head of C+W, head of C+W, helping in legal matters, becoming a director, CoSec or chairman? What happens if they stay as a worker in C+W while holding any of those titles?

    Sent from my Moto G (4) using Tapatalk
     
  19. davidarnold

    davidarnold Member

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2006
    Messages:
    436
    Likes Received:
    392
    Mike, its a bit rich for a New Member with only three posts to his name to pop up on a long running thread without acquainting himself with all the arguments on both sides, just so he can slag off another member.

    If you had you will have noticed that where possible I temper any criticism of the small number of people who make bad design decisions, with praise for the the hard working volunteers and their otherwise wonderful railway.

    Your sweeping statement about what most people think about my points is not valid unless you have asked them which I doubt. If its just your opinion then say so.

    You might also like to try a spell checker, I am sure you meant to write "Most people who pay their money".
     
    Last edited: Nov 25, 2017
    MellishR, AndyY and 1472 like this.
  20. collet1930

    collet1930 New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2011
    Messages:
    59
    Likes Received:
    25
    Having not personally visited to see the building in question but there does seem a lot of questions about what was promised and what has been built.The broadway canopy construction differences come to mind.Did we all only have what was going on at Broadway in our sites and the elf centre /museum or what ever its going to be in the future has crept in unnoticed.
    I do like the ashburton picture I must admit.
     
    davidarnold likes this.

Share This Page