LSWR T3 563

BTW I wonder if the Greek Government is aware that our National Museums are starting to gift aware specify their precious artefacts? I think there are certain bits of the Parthenon which they believe could be displayed in a more appropriate setting.

 

duplicate post

 

As has been pointed out already, much of the 'post first generation' diesel & electric stock will present significant problems to preserve in operational condition, unlike the steam era equiptment so I suggest that some long term thought must be given to how the NRM can accommodate future artefacts

 

Hi Lester,
Your ar right to say the TVR 28 is on static loan to the GVCG rather than a transfer of ownership having taken place.

 

Having been heavily shot down in flames on several counts, can I make a feeble riposte....City of Truro has not been heavily rebult...at least not in the sense that the T9 and the Midland Compound have been. Some GWR 4-4-0s were rebuilt to the City design but not this one.

 

That's fine, but doesn't address what seem to me the two significant questions:

1) why would such a model need ownership to change in order to work - plenty of National Collection items have been dispersed in the past (and operated where appropriate) without ownership changing

2) shouldn't any transfers or loans address storage concerns and as a bare minimum, not result in storage in worse conditions than the item currently enjoys?

Tom

 

could it be a case of a Trust cannot get funding unless they own a loco? Funding that maybe could provide covered accommodation? Swanage has the possibility I believe of land at the former Oil sidings, and also has Planning permission for a turntable at Herston behind the works.

 

I agree in principle. Perhaps a beefed up version of the old Railway Heritage Committee is needed (the current version doesn't seem to have much of a public profile unfortunately). 'National Collection' items could have a Conservation Management Plan (as many museum items do already), which could not be changed without reference to the committee.

A question I would ask is did the T3 have a NRM Conservation Management Plan and have the Swanage Trust agreed to uphold it?

 

Added it to the list, which with the exception of a few other recent disposals I believe is now as follows:-

NATIONAL COLLECTION / NATIONAL RAILWAY MUSEUM ROLLING STOCK DISPOSALS

LOCOMOTIVES

LSWR CLASS T3 563 – E563 4-4-0 Built 1893 (1975 – 7000)

To Swanage Railway.

NORD 628 – 230 D 116 4-6-0 Built 1911 (1980 - 1439)

To Nene Valley Railway, then to France.

NSR L CLASS No. 2 - 2271 0-6-2T Built 1922 (1978 – 7032)

To Foxfield Railway.

CEGB ‘EUSTACE FORTH’ 0-4-0ST RSH 7063/1942 (1978 – 7007)

To Foxfield Railway.

WD AUSTERITY DESIGN ‘RESPITE’ 0-6-0ST HE 3696/1950 (NC)

Used as source of parts for ‘IRON DUKE’ replica. Remains to Ribble Steam Railway.

CEGB DM ‘BEA CARRINGTON STATION’ 0-6-0DM RSH 7746/1954 (1980 – 7000)

To Tanfield Railway.

BR ENGLISH ELECTRIC CLASS 50 D433 – 50033 ‘GLORIOUS’ Co-Co Built 1958 (1994-7283)

To Swindon Borough Council (STEAM Museum), then to Tyseley Locomotive Works.

NCB 3’0” Gauge DHF ‘ELLINGTON COLIERY 9’ Bo-Bo HE 9227/1986 (2005 – 7600)

To Bowes Railway

COACHING STOCK

STOCKTON & DARLINGTON THIRD 179 1850 (1978 – 7053)

To North of England Open Air Museum

CAMBRIAN BRAKE COMPOSITE 238 – 6277 - 40576 – 80945 1895 (listed 1988)

To National Museum of Wales.

LSWR OPEN CARRIAGE TRUCK 5830 – DS60562 1895 (1978 – 7092)

To Yeovil Railway Centre.

MIDLAND STEAM RAILMOTER 2234 (converted to officers Saloon 45010) 1904 (1978 – 7124)

To Chain Bridge Honey Farm, Horncliffe, nr Berwick-upon-Tweed

NER STORES VAN 63229 – DE903012 – 041273 1907 (1982 – 7002)

To North Yorkshire Moors Railway

ECJS THE H.M QUEEN’S SALOON 396 1908 (1983 – 7008)

To Bressingham Steam Museum

GWR ‘WHITEWASH COACH’ (ex BTK) 2360 - DW139 1911 (1991 – 7429)

To Barry Island Railway

LNWR CHAIRMAN’S SALOON 5000 – 45000 – 2911 1920 (1995 – 7148)

To Princess Royal Locomotive Trust, Midland Railway – Butterley.

SR 4 Sub DMBT 8144 1925 (NC)

Used as source of spares for SR 4 Sub DMBT 8143 – scrapped.

LMSR PI TO 16553 – 7863 – KDM395346 1925 (listed 1988)

To Midland Railway – Butterley

LMSR PI TO 8207 1925 (listed 1988)

To Midland Railway – Butterley,

GWR RTO 9654 – TDW150326 1925 (1982 – 7001)

To Severn Valley Railway.

NORD SK 7122 – 508729-37-413-3 1926 (listed 1988)

To Nene Valley Railway

GWR RCK 9605 – TDW150330 1930 (listed 1988)

To Pontypool & Blaenavon Railway – scrapped

REPLICA L&MR FIRST ‘EXPERIENCE’ 1934 (listed 1988)

To Liverpool Museum

REPLICA L&MR THIRD 1934 (listed 1988)

To Liverpool Museum

LNER TO 23953 – 13251 1936 (listed 1988)

To East Anglian Railway Museum

SR BY 435 – ADB975672 1937 (1994 – 7348)

To Andrew Goodman / Vale of Berkeley Railway

LMSR TEST UNIT No. 1 – 45053 1938 (1978 - 7128)

To Embsay & Bolton Abbey Railway

SR 4 Buf ‘BOGNOR BUFFET’ TRBT 12529 1938 (listed 1988)

Damaged by fire whilst on loan to Nene Valley Railway – scrapped

SR POS 4920 1939 (1978 – 7072)

To Nene Valley Railway

LMSR MBT 28361 1939 (1983 – 7010)

To Merseyside Transport Trust, Burscough

LMSR DTC 29896 1939 (1983 – 7011)

To Merseyside Transport Trust, Burscough

SR WATERLOO & CITY LINE DM 61 1940 (1993 -7324)

To London Transport Museum, Acton

LMSR HM THE KING’S SALOON 798 1941 (1983 – 7005)

To Severn Valley Railway

GWR ROYAL SALOON 9006 1945 (1987 – 7011)

To West Coast Railway Company (transfer not yet completed)

GWR ROYAL SALOON 9007 1945 (1987 – 7012)

To West Coast Railway Company (transfer not yet completed)

GWR INSPECTION SALOON 80970 1948 (1988 – 7021)

To Andrew Goodman / Gloucestershire-Warwickshire Railway, then to Great Central Railway, then to Epping Ongar Railway

SR TO 1456 – DS70285 1948 (listed 1988)

To Bluebell Railway, then to Mid Hants Railway

LMSR PIII BTK 27093 1950 (1987 – 7004)

To Midland Railway – Butterley

LMSR POS 30272 1950 (listed 1988)

To Nene Valley Railway

BR MARK I TSO 4286 1956 (listed 1988)

To North Yorkshire Moors Railway

PULLMAN CAR Co. PARLOUR FIRST ‘EMERALD’ (326) 1960 (1987 – 7010)

To West Coast Railway Company

BR MARK I GRIDDLE CAR 1100 1960 (1978 – 7066)

To Great Central Railway

BR MARK I BSK 35362 1962 (FNRM – NC)

To Aln Valley Railway

BR PROTOTYPE MARK II FK 13252 1963 (1987 – 7006)

To Mid Norfolk Railway

BR MARK II TSO 5455 1969 (1994 – 7083)

To East Anglian Railway Museum

BR 4 Vep DTCsoL 76875 1973 (2006 – 7360)

To East Kent Light Railway (transfer not yet completed)

BR APT-P 48103+48602+48603+48404+49002 / 48106 1978/79 (1988 - 7006/1-6)

To Crewe Heritage Centre

BR APT-P DM 49006 1980 (1988 – 7006/7)

To Coventry Railway Centre

REPLICA GWR BROAD GAUGE SECOND 1985 (1987 -7015)

To Didcot Railway Centre

ON-TRACK PLANT / ON-TRACK MACHINES / OTHER

LNWR LOCOMOTIVE TENDER CONVERTED TO WATER CARRIER 18?? (2003 – 7606)

To ?

LNWR STEAM BREAKDOWN CRANE RS1020 + MATCH WAGON 284235 1907 (1978 – 7125/6)

To Churnet Valley Railway, then to Crewe Heritage Centre

BR MATISA ‘NEPTUNE’ RECORDING TROLLEY DB965310 / TRN50/05 – DX50002 1957 (1985 – 7055)

To The Cab Yard, Bridgend

BR PLASSER & THEURER TAMPER/LINER DB965742 / 73/007 - DR73010 1969 (1988 – 7023)

To Aln Valley Railway

MAGNETIC LEVITATION

BR MAG-LEV PROTOTYPE 19?? (1988 – 2007)

To ?

WAGONS

MR 10 TON MINERAL WAGON 1910 (1978 – 7075)

To Embsay & Bolton Abbey Railway

GWR ‘HYDRA D’ WELL WAGON 42193 1913 (7098 – 1917)

To Great Western Society, Didcot

GNR 8 TON VAN 432764 1915 (1978 – 7096)

Scrapped

GWR ‘TOAD’ BRAKE VAN 56518 1915 (NC)

To Andrew Goodman / Gloucestershire-Warwickshire Railway

GCR BOX VAN ‘10’ 1917 (7075 – 1978)

Chassis to Wensleydale Railway, body scrapped

NER BOX VAN ‘5’ 1917 (1978 – 7074)

To Embasy & Bolton Abbey Railway

MR 8 TON HIGH SIDED WAGON ‘98’ 1917 (7078 – 1917)

Scrapped

LBSCR CATTLE TRUCK 7116 - 46924 1922 (1978 – 7099)

To Isle of Wight Steam Railway

LMSR COVERED VAN ‘52’ 1924 (1978 – 7077)

Scrapped

GWR 13 TON OPEN WAGON 108246 1925 (1980 – 7003)

To Welshpool & Llanfair Railway

GWR OPEN WAGON 143698 1925 (1978 – 7104)

To Great Western Society, Didcot

LNER ‘DOLPHIN’ BOGIE RAIL WAGON 633433 1925 (1995 – 7787)

To Elsecar Steam Railway

LMSR GUNPOWDER VAN 288824 1933 (1982 – 7006)

To North Yorkshire Moors Railway

LNER TUBE WAGON 181358 1935 (1978 – 7117)

To Churnet Valley Railway

LNER 20 TON BRAKE VAN 187774 1935 (1978 – 7102)

To North Yorkshire Moors Railway

LMSR SINGLE BOLSTER WAGON 722702 1938 (1982 – 7008)

Scrapped

GWR ‘LOROIT P’ WELL WAGON 42367 1945 (1988 – 7018)

To Embsay & Bolton Abbey Railway

GWR ‘TOAD’ BRAKE VAN 68499 1946 (1993 – 7003)

To Elsecar Steam Railway

LMSR FLAT WAGON 707111 WITH ROAD TANK TRAILER 1946 (1991 – 7474)

To Andrew Goodman / Gloucestershire-Warwickshire Railway

GWR ‘MOGO’ MOTOR CAR VAN 65814 1946 (1979 – 7003)

To Bristol Industrial Museum

BR ‘FLATROL’ BOGIE WAGON 900402 – 95400 1949 (1978 – 7107)

Retained by NRM as plant

BR BOGIE BOLSTER ‘D’ WAGON 941000 1949 (1988 – 7019)

Scrapped

BR 40 TON BOGIE BOLSTER WAGON 996724 1949 (1987 – 7018)

To Churnet Valley Railway

BR 12 TON CATTLE VAN 892156 1950 (1978 – 7109)

To East Anglian Railway Museum

ICI LIQUID CHLORINE TANK WAGON 47484 1951 (1976 – 7006)

To Andrew Goodman / Vale of Berkeley Railway

BR 18 TON MINERAL WAGON 234830 1955 (1982 – 7004)

To North Yorkshire Moors Railway

BR ‘WELTROL BOGIE WELL WAGON 900916 1958 (1988 – 7020)

To Keighley & Worth Valley Railway

BR / W. H. DAVIS MILK TANK 42801 1981 (1990 – 7364)

To Dennis Howells, Buckinghamshire Railway Centre / Mid-Norfolk Railway

 

Regarding Austerity HE3696 listed, this is a substantially complete loco that passed into private individual ownership at RSR rather than by it.

 

Chain Bridge Honey Farm?

 

Exactly. Although it's unlikely that the NRM would ever consider having a replacement power bogie built and installed, now that the GWS have done theirs, it's still a fairly rare vehicle

 

I'm not an expert by any means, but I have butchered a Dapol City to make it look something like an as-built loco. I had to do major surgery on the frames, boiler and tender to get the right look, and even then I couldn't find an authentic narrow chimney.

As preserved, City of Truro looks OK in a later livery, but looks quite wrong in the elaborate, early 1900s livery.

 

But the City class as a whole were rebuilt. None of them had a superheater or piston valves as built. I can't speak for the Compound, but 30120 didn't even have the Drummond cross water tubes in the firebox as built, so arguably the surgery was less - just a superheater, extended smokebox, boiler feeds and sandboxes relocated.

If you're looking for a substantially as-built Victorian/Edwardian 4-4-0 in the National Collection then 737 is probably the nearest to it ... oh, and there was 563 representing a deviation from the type that was nonetheless a successful design.

 

Not sure if you had your tongue in cheek when you wrote that, Robin, but this would get my full support. It would combine appropriate usage and display of the collection with the statutory protection that the most precious items need. It would also enable the NRM to extend its collection by bringing other precious items under its protective wing. Not just engines and carriages, but signalling installations, engine sheds and rarities like the Bowes Railway incline.

 

I'm sorry I just can't see that happening in a time of austerity due to poor management of our ecconomy. . . .

 

Surely that's the point isn't it? Privatise the entire collection by giving it away to heritage railways - with all the responsibility but no money. Demolish the York museum and redevelop the site; turn Shildon into a Free School. If nobody wants the smaller exhibits or things like the poster collection just burn them.

 

I wasn't aware it was a gift rather than a loan. So given the comments above, which part of the SVR now owns it - the PLC or the Charitable Trust?

 

To be fair it was offered for sale by tender and subsequently was the first steam loco to arrive at what was to become the Ribble steam railway which is itself an often overlooked gem in the plethora of railway preservation projects that litter our country...