Should Steam railways employ more people ?

Not quite. We have a paid operations manager, S+T person, Development manager, and a couple of admin staff. And the contractor who drives the JCB (primarily at the Broadway extension at the moment) seems to be around so often he might as well be staff! As Tom says, we do use contractors for some things, but in C+W for instance we do full bogie overhauls ourselves, only tyres are sent way for turning the rest we do ourselves, and our carriages are cleaned by volunteers. The flag and whistle cafe at Toddington is a franchise but all other catering staff including evening trains are volunteers, as are shop staff. The loco department is a bit more variable with contractors as it depends what each individual owning group want to do, but boilers especially are always sent out for contract as far as I can think.

 

In my experience, that is not particularly important. Within our C&W department, we have taken on several paid employees that had no interest or passion in railways at all. What was far more important was their passion to do a good job on what they were told to work on, and their people skills so they could work alongside volunteers and keep up the "good vibe" which is SO important when mixing paid and volunteers in together doing the same job. I'm quite proud to say that some of our most hard working and best thought of staff are in fact not railway oriented at all. It confirms what has been said by others in this thread that with the right people, you're onto a winner!


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I agree with what you say, I was thinking of management jobs.

 

Having key managers with a feel for the heritage aspects can make a huge, positive difference. Unfortunately, whatever a manager does or whatever their interests and approach, it will be wrong for 'the word on the street' - no interest in railways - 'they want to turn us into a theme park' - obvious enthusiast - ' world's highest paid trainspotter'!

Seriously, at 'management' level (whether paid or not), a feel and respect for heritage is vital, but must be tempered by realism. That may sound an odd thing to suggest for volunteers, as surely they are all enthusiasts, but you do get some for whom a railway is something to be a part of or gain position in that could just as easily be a sports club, civic society etc.

Steven

 

There's another angle to consider. There is credit to be gained from being seen as a volunteer organisation, in terms of willingness to pay high fares, donate to a good cause, etc.. I've given money to appeals (usually for bridges...) at GCR and NYMR, which my wife would never have stood for if they'd operated under the PDSR model - and, yes, I'm aware that both have a significant paid presence.

There's a question about how much that goodwill is worth, but it needs considering.

 

I would say supporter goodwill is going to be of huge importance in the next 10-20 years, if only because many long-standing supporters may well be inclined to either make further donations now or leave legacies in their wills as they pass on. In the longer term it might be less significant.

I do genuinely think that the next 5-10 years are going to be vital for many railways, in determining their long-term future and that is really why the question raised at the start of this thread is significant.

Regards

Matt

 

Given that Railways exist so that their members can basically play trains on a big scale*, the logical extension of that is to pay Professionals to run them when there is a shortfall of volunteers/skills.

*nothing wrong with that....

 

There is another model not mentioned - the paid staff volunteer. Yes you did read that right. We have a number of paid staff who turn out as volunteers. C&W paid staff are volunteer guards. Our General Manager Nick Ralls can often be seen in high vis doing the duty shunter role. I have no idea when I see a familiar face on the loco if this is a paid or volunteer turn, and that's as it should be.

One size does not fit all. Each organisation must get the right ballance for its needs

 

I always recall when Swanage was purely volunteer run, when looking to employ its first member of staff the board was keen not to employ a volunteer as that was a volunteer lost.

 

I agree, I should have perhaps said the ability to inspire rather than just an interest in railways. There have been a couple of instances where the wrong sort of totally commercially orientated management has alienated the volunteers. One was in the early days and caused me and quite a few others to give up on one particular line.

 

Are there any lines, other than the very smallest that have no paid staff?

 

The nearest to that is probably the KWVR, unless it has changed all of the operating staff are volunteers.

 

Certainly. The North Norfolk employs about 50 staff, I would estimate at least a fifth of them fall into this catagory. Two members of C&W are volunteer drivers, members of Loco Dept are firemen or drivers, the General Manager is a guard, members of Ops dept are signalmen. The more I think about it, the more paid staff I recall doing "volunteer stuff". You are quite right in that the "wall" between paid staff and volunteers is often more of a mist!

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does any railway (other than the PDSR etc) have paid drivers/firemen/signalmen? It would seem to me to be self-defeating to do this as the whole point of such railway would be enthusiasts enjoying themselves. I've no problem with shop or catering staff or admin being employees as that may be necessary to support the raison d'etre of the line but paid operating staff seems to me to likely to make the whole proceedings pointless.

 

The NYMR has paid staff who can drive but it is now rare for them to be called upon in this capacity. Not so three or four years ago when there were a couple of paid drivers. There are some paid operating staff who do guarding and signalling, as required.

 

I have been told the Romney Hythe & Dymchurch have some paid drivers?

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KESR has a couple of ops admin/managers who are qualified as drivers and guards, plus a few of the loco fitters are drivers as volunteers. None of the paid staff are qualified signalmen to the best of my knowledge, although a few can work the frames for shunting within possession.
Of course whenever one of the paid staff has to cover what should be a volunteer position, their own work is uncovered, if a fitter has to drive it can have an impact delaying overhauls for example.

Running a public service therefore always requires volunteer signalmen, and some of the train crew. Working within possessions is facilitated by the fact that several of the p/way volunteers also are drivers or guards. Non-public trains also require volunteer signalmen unless they are engineering trains running within a possession.

Running tonight's Pullman for example requires two signalmen, full loco crew plus guard. Ops dept management could cover at most two of the train crew. All rostered as volunteers tonight. And of course the food preparation, waiting and washing up staff are volunteers except the chef.

 

I think it depends on what sort of operations you need and to look at. Generally you'd want some folks who're ready to do the "less sexy" roles. C&W leaps to mind, for example.

You're probably always going to have people willing to be a signalman, drivers, guards etc, but mostly at weekends.

If your line is more of a tourist railway as opposed to a "pure" heritage line you might be running trains every day of the week for six-eight months of the year.

For the most part it seems "somewhere to somewhere" lines might need more staff. The biggest question becomes whether or not rate of replacement is going to hold out in volunteers, or if other railway-running aspects would have to be turned over to paid staff. I suspect, much like engineering was a major problem a few years ago we might be faced with a volunteer shortage some time in the future.

 

You say that, but our C&W has something like 110 volunteers and no paid staff, with 4 working days a week just in the workshops averaging maybe 20 volunteers in a day, not including carriage cleaners and maintenance gang.

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But where would they get them money from to pay these professionals? It will take a *huge* chunk out of any operating revenues.

A railway needs to match its operating requirements to its volunteer availability. Fewer volunteers = fewer trains or fewer operating days.