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UP 4014

Discussion in 'International Heritage Railways/Tramways' started by athelney, Jul 23, 2013.

  1. guycarr360

    guycarr360 Part of the furniture

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    Correct, a nice touch from UP.
     
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  2. *8A*

    *8A* New Member

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    I was privileged to have a private tour of the UP Steam Shop at Cheyenne last winter and the UP Steam Team are doing a great job. The sheer size of the Big Boys has to be seen to be believed. The UP Steam Team are steadily re-equiping the workshop with all the steam era tools and equipment removed by UP when regular steam had finished. So the future of running the big engines looks secure, at least whilst the present management of UP is there! As someone said earlier in the thread, it does help when you own the track as well as the rolling stock.
    Public visits to the Steam Shop are available a couple of times a month until December, their website has details if anyone happens to be in the Cheyenne area. As well as the Big Boy, there is also 844 and the Challenger to see.
    There is also a second Big Boy, 4004, in the public park nearby, and this one is in one piece! You might ask why drag 4014 all the way from California when you have one a few hundred yards away! Well the climate in Cheyenne is a lot different to California and they did inspect 4004 and found it as you might expect in nowhere near as good condition as 4014, apparently the area where 4004 is displayed floods from time to time!


    upload_2017-9-11_22-6-22.png
     
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  3. guycarr360

    guycarr360 Part of the furniture

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  4. Martin Perry

    Martin Perry Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Moderator Friend

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    Interesting sensible storage technique;
     
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  5. gwalkeriow

    gwalkeriow Well-Known Member

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    At Havenstreet all winter lay up locos have heaters installed in their fireboxes, I suspect that there may well be others who do the same.
     
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  6. Dag Bonnedal

    Dag Bonnedal New Member

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    You should not keep them warm, that's just a big waste off energy.
    You should keep them dry, use air dehumidifiers and they should be installed circulating the air through the boiler, both air and water side in a closed loop system.
    Normal compressor driven air dehumidifiers freeze up at even moderate temperatures, well above the ambient freezing point.
    Use adsorption dehumidifiers, they can be used at any temperatures. We use this brand (but there are others as well):
    https://www.munters.com/en/munters/products/dehumidifiers/ml180/

    First we run them continuously for a week or so to to dry the boiler out. Then it could be run by a hygrometer or just a day per week or so for the rest of the season, depending on how well you can have the boiler sealed.
     
    Last edited: Oct 24, 2017
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  7. 30854

    30854 Resident of Nat Pres

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    A thoughtful post from @Dag Bonnedal . The overall objective of course being the same.

    Do any among our number have a handle on the levels of power consumption required by either heaters or de-humidifiers? As 'winterisation' utilising either/both involves months of steady power consumption, the relationship between the variables (storage location, volume thus treated and the financial penalty of doing so) may point to more cost effective methods, to the benefit of locos and funds.

    An honest, if possibly daft question: Do desiccant crystals (of the sort supplied with various humidity sensitive products, from brief cases and clothing to circuit boards) have any useful role to play in mitigating "winterisation" costs? We're speaking here of multiple reuse of a usually (and highly wastefully) singļe use resource. Re-desiccation is easily managed by taking advantage of suitable conditions as they arise (e.g. an hour or so in a cooling firebox) coupled with sensible storage pending use.

    If so, perhaps collection points for said items (which, be it noted, certain recipient industries have to dispose of in significant quantities) could be arranged at minimal outlay. Here, I'd ask which common but functionally obsolete feature of station "furniture" could successfully be re-purposed?
     
  8. Spamcan81

    Spamcan81 Nat Pres stalwart

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    The Vulcan guys used bags of silica gel to dehumidify the engines. Rather a cock up when they fired them up but forgot to removes the bags from the intakes.
     
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  9. Allegheny

    Allegheny Member

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    There is a device called a "Drycol" breather which is used to dry the airspace above the oil in large electrical power transformers, because moisture is detrimental to the transformer oil.
    "Drycol" is a trade name used by Alstom, but I'm sure the other manufacturers will produce equivalent devices. I've wondered if one of these could be beneficial during long term storage of a boiler. If you do an internet search on Drycol there is a diagram.
     
  10. Ploughman

    Ploughman Part of the furniture

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    Before anyone makes any comment on whether or not heating is a good idea or not.
    There is one major factor to consider.
    What is the likely winter temperature where the loco is ?

    Am I right in thinking that many vehicles in the Northern US and Canada are fitted with engine block heaters to prevent freezing up?
     
  11. Dag Bonnedal

    Dag Bonnedal New Member

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    I think we are discussing out of service storage and not stand by locos? Thus no water - no freezing

    Back in the 1950-ties and 60-ties the Swedish state Railways (SJ) stored many locos in the strategic reserve. In those days they put thick tar like rust protection (Tectyl) all over the locos and put silica gel bags in the boilers. This method was terribly labour intensive (specially in trying to get the rust protection off). And it was not reliable, the locos had to be tested regularly, many were sent directly to scrap due to severe corrosion.
    In the latter part of the 60-ties they adopted a new method. A big sheet of plastic was stretched across the track in the stable or special storage shed. The loco was rolled over the plastic sheet and it was wrapped up and the plastic melted (welded) into a huge plastic bag around the loco. An adsorption dehumidifier was connected to the bag and that was it. Never any need to take the locos out for testing, they were always in as good condition as when they were bagged. The strategic reserved held 5-10 % of all steam locos SJ ever owned and was finally dissolved only after the end of the cold war. Much to the benefit of standard gauge railway clubs, but the back side of it is that these days it is difficult to find any standard gauge locos in steam other than the two standard classes that dominated the content of the reserve.

    The dehumidifiers used were small units developed for military storage needs. And once the bags were dried out these small 1 kW units needed to tun less than one day per month, i.e. and average consumption of less than 50 W per loco. We have one 2 kW unit for one shed storing 4 narrow gauge locos. During the autumn we run the unit 2 days a week, but in the winter and spring 1 day is enough. Thus energy consumption directly depends on how well you can arrange a closed system for the dry air to circulate in.
     
    Last edited: Oct 25, 2017
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  12. 8126

    8126 Member

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    Thank you, that was a very interesting post. It seems to me that the bagging and dehumidifying method would be an excellent way of maintaining preserved locos awaiting overhaul in good condition; after all, many aren't on public display. With some locos that have gone a long time between stints in service, much of the degradation being rectified seems to have occurred after they stopped running, even while preserved.
     
  13. Dag Bonnedal

    Dag Bonnedal New Member

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    Here is a video by German Eisenbahn Romatik (voiceover in German) from opening up one of the last sheds.

    Action starts 10 min into the video. As you may see vandals had been inside the shed already and torn the plastic, thus it was high time to take care of the locos.

    At one time there were many dozens of these corrugated iron sheds spread at remote places in mostly northern Sweden. Some young enthusiasts made lists of the known sheds, and that was of course espionage, as these sheds were military secrets.
    Just to reconnect to UP 4014, dry air is a good conservation method, not only in Southern California.

    Just a few additional comments on the video:
    It was made in 2008 and this was the very last shed. Just look at the scale of the expedition, the electric loco is from 1954, the dining coach from 1924 and the train is complete with workshop wagon, sleeping coaches and even IT-centre, all accommodation needed for one week for 35 participants. A heavy loader, white van transporter and lots of track building equipment included. All done in the old-fashioned way, no cranes, no low loaders. And just getting there was a full 1000 km trip! The two railway clubs had to pay a symbolic 100 GBP each for their locos to the Swedish Railway Museum, which kept the third loco. Going back another 1000 km with the steam engines on tow over the national network in a leisurely 60 kmph took some time, many trains to cross and let pass by on the single track northern mainline.
     
    Last edited: Oct 27, 2017
  14. guycarr360

    guycarr360 Part of the furniture

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    This is well worth a look for anybody interested in Up steam, includes a update on UP4014

     
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  15. 240P15

    240P15 Well-Known Member

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    A fantastic project this one! A dream for steam enthusiasts all over the world!:)

    But not everybody seems to be happy:D
    I hope the video not will be objectionable to someone!
     
  16. 30854

    30854 Resident of Nat Pres

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    There's so much to like about UP's commitment to it's steam operations. The clip Guy posted gives a real insight into Cheyenne's approach to their work and to the heavy engineering ethos they're evidently determined to pass along to future generations.

    Did anyone else rewind the comment about loco 838? My mind went straight to Castle class mainline star "Defiant", which also owes it's survival to it's sometime projected use as a spare parts mine. One to watch, I suspect.

    This project marks the first time I've followed a restoration over the pond in any detail and it continues to be a real eye-opener. I hope some cross-pollintation exists between steam railway workshops here and in The States, as there's so much accumulated knowledge that it's impossible to believe anywhere retains the sum total of over a century of steam age 'know how' in every department.
     
  17. guycarr360

    guycarr360 Part of the furniture

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  18. guycarr360

    guycarr360 Part of the furniture

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    Couple of updates have appeared.

    1. Rebuilding of front engine, getting quite advanced



    2. UP Steam Talk 2018



    Some of the enormous tasks undertaken inc boiler work etc...
     
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  19. 30854

    30854 Resident of Nat Pres

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    That big drawing would look well above my sofa (Yes... I do live alone .... so what!)

    I'm just nipping off for 1hr 20mins off to watch the 2nd update on a bigger screen.:)
     
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  20. guycarr360

    guycarr360 Part of the furniture

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    Make a donation for the engineering drawing, you might be lucky!!!
     
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