Pre-Nationalisation Coach Restorations, ex-End of the Line thread

If you came to the SVR on a midweek running day in the high season. You will more than likely see both Mk1 rakes running and they are the type of do anything take anything coach and either the Teaks or the LMS set as the other set. If one isn't running its the maintenance set at kidder. And then you have GW2 which is probably the least used public set but its used more heavily on the footplate experiences.

The maroon mk1s are probably the second worst looking set at the mo with GW2 the worst. The interiors are not that bad. I was over on remembrance sunday and noted 3 very fresh looking maroon mk1s with the knowledge that the maroons are going through the mill in repainting. But as like any railways the C&W is a very small team working 5-7 days a week with very tight time constraints.

 

Yesvi saw some freshly repainted maroon coaches beyond bridgenorth which look a lot better. "as like any other railway?" five to seven days a week sounds like a lot to me, shouldn't take them long at all

 

Here is some food for thought, A Gresley coach will seat as many people as a Mk1, while the lack of centre vestibule means that they are a little shorter with a little more leg room, and work out at a couple of tons lighter, with the excellent ride qualities of the Gresley bogie, buckeye couplings, Pullman ends and what was a very modern, advanced underframe for the time, along with their relative ease of repair, it is actually the SVR's LNER set that offers the best value both to the railway and the passengers.

 

Right, new build Gresleys all round

 

Can't argue with that!

 

I believe they do have a supply, however being a wagon man I can only go on what the carriage lads tell me on this one.

 

Only if they can have better brake vans!

 

Why do you need big panels of teak? Teak is wonderful stuff- a teak frame is almost rot-proof and easy to repair, so much so that it will outlast almost any other timber frame and the awful pressed-steel components which are the fatal weakness of Mk.1s. The thin teak sheathing panels are another matter; they weather, crack, require frequent, specialised re-varnishing and will not take conventional paint. In addition to which, the material is now virtually unobtainable, certainly in the widths and quantities needed to clad whole coaches. All these factors were well known by the 1950s, yet most of the original fleet of main-line vehicles were still in service at that time, indeed some lasted until the early '70s.
So how did BR deal with the problem? They used alternatives, mainly marine ply and sheet steel (though I wouldn't recommend the latter). I know that this is anathema to the purists, but the cost, or total lack of, suitable teak, should not prevent the remaining Gresleys from being brought back into use. I'll stick my neck out and say that they were the best general-service coaches built in the 20th century. It's well worth making small compromises to get as many as possible of those still in existence back in use.

 

There's not many teak coaches out there that I (acting on behalf of the LNERCA) haven't supplied teak panels for, and if properly cared for these new teak panels ought to see out all but our very youngest volunteer. The longest panels we have had to date were 22'6", but they are exceptional. Most Gresley open stock have 18 ft at most, and on compartment coaches most are only 4-8ft. So far we have managed to obtain whatever panels people want. Suitable logs are getting harder and harder to obtain but they do crop up from time to time. The cost isn't as bad as people expect either - It should be possible to completely repanel a Gresley for about £8,000. Of course plywood or steel can be used and both are cheaper, but plywood in particular doesn't last long and may well work out dearer in the long run.

 

You are quite right on the first point; there were a number of departmental examples redundant from BR 20-30 years ago, but too many went for scrap because everyone was busy buying Mk1s. Nevertheless, there are still a number around (our little set-up has 4) and not many are running.
As of last week, top quality 3/8" equivalent marine ply, £33 per 8'x4' sheet and you can paint it in the BR livery of your choice. Havn't done the sums, but I think that we could do several re-sheetings and still have change from eight grand!

 

Bulleid and Maunsell made good brake vehicles - new build for those.

Gets coat

 

I am surprised so few LMS Coaches were preserved, even until very recently Network Rail wiring trains consisted of large fleets of LMS coaches.
(ok the innards may have gone and the roof somewhat flattened, but nothing that couldn't have been over come..(for instance taking Mk1 innards and using them inside)..
it seems the relatively cheap and abundant nature of Mk1s represented the easy option for all preserved lines at the time... I know several railways could buy them straight from BR for around £4-5k, working condition and put them out on the next service train after arrival.

 

I Googled and came across this list.

https://www.rcts.org.uk/features/pr...hing Stock of British Railways - Part Two.pdf

There appear to be significant numbers of LMS coached preserved from departmental use. I suspect however that many are sheeted wrecks awaiting restoration, excluding the SVR examples. Railways are slowly catching up on older stock as their facilities are improved, see Bluebells plans. Getting our heritage stock under cover so it can dry out must be the first priority. I dont underestimate the size of the problem. The SVR shed appears at first glance massivewith space at the front for 4 in service 8 coach sets and nearly as much again for stored stock. Despite this unrestored stock still sits outside.

 

Does that not imply that the SVR has too much stock, and should consider loaning/selling some of it to other groups as suggested by 21B at post #77?

Keith

 

No it implies we need a bigger shed.

 

Looking at the VCT LMS coach list there are approx only 7 LMS built and 5 BR built LMS design in use, as the rest are awaiting restoration or in a few cases stuffed and mounted and this is for approx 3 coaches only. I have excluded the inspection coaches from this total as they will not be used in most cases for every day trains.

 

If you carried out the same exercise for all -the big 4 I don't think you would see much difference. Ironically, given the relative paucity of locos, I think the LNER would come out top for working examples, but that's probably because so many TTOs survived relatively late in control traiNNR, ns and they are fully compatible with Mk 1s., in both technical terms and seating capacity. Most of the operational big 4 stock is concentrated at the Bluebell, SVR, SDR and NYMR (and GWS), I can't think of any major collections

 

Which perfectly illustrates my point that there isn't enough flexibility. I suspect that the SVR really does have more stock than it will ever be able to make full use of. I am not suggesting that it allow items to go without a realistic plan and a good prospect that the plan will be carried out, but if "someone" approaches with such a plan, even if it means that the item may be lost from the railway for a period (or even for ever) the approach should ideally be to let the item go unless there is an in house plan that is a better prospect for that item. Never having approached the SVR with such a request I don't know what the response would be from them, but looking at the big picture, not much movement happens.

 

I dont know enough re the ins and outs of who owns what and where is it funded etc to comment other than I dont think the SVR itself owns much stock. Most of it is in trusts and Funds, e.g. the coach used as the Earlstoke Manor Fund Shop. I cannot deny that the SVR has some stock awaiting restoration outside the shed. There is not that much of it though. Perhaps we run too many long trains in some peoples eyes as we often clear the shed of the in service stock. Even a table A summer Saturday needs 2 steam hauled rakes, 1 diesel loco hauled set. We could have 6 toplights/saloons on Intermediate footplate and the GWR dining set being prepared fot the evening. 35 bogies in use. Add a couple of saloon charters and there is onlyone spare set.

For table C there are 4 in service sets plus the diner. and if we have an intermediate or Supreme FE 6 toplights/saloons. Posibly 43 bogies in total with only two of the rakes bein wholy MK1s.