End of the Line

Well there is one railway, which had better be nameless, which replicates this to an extent by having some seats where the moquette is so worn as for the pattern to be merely a stain on the backing and whilst I am not aware of leaks, some of the doors were locked out of use when I went there last.

PH

 

So which do you think the Jo Public like.

Something from the early 1900's

Or something from the 50's 60's

(sorry the engine is too clean)

Jo Public will love the orr and arr colours, and won't bother if the enthusiasts want the colours from when they were a lad and did the train spotting.

 

You enthuse about a series II Land Rover yet complain about lack of heating and leaks in a railway coach. I drive a 76 SIII and know my heater works when I get out and get frozen and find the landy is warmer than outside.

 

In all honesty, as long as it's reasonably clean, I don't think Jo Public mind an awful lot. That MK 1 coach is not a good example of some of the shining examples we have on the GWSR! We enthusiasts may prefer it (I certainly do!) but the reality is we aren't the largest demographic for most railways. Happy to be corrected, perhaps Tom can give examples of the uninitiated making comments either way - about the stock itself of course - if the MK 1s are dirtier than the older coaches that's cheating!

 

Yes, but if you want the engines in the late 50's into the 60's condition as you will remember from your youth, they would be in most cases very grubby and the old coaches will be in poor condition to get the feel right for your memories.

 

The engines I remember from my youth are always scrubbed up very well. Going right back to my very early youth, they may have had Thomas faces on I accept your point that no one would prefer conditions in the 50's and 60's to those of the 1900's, but I'm not so sure that the stock itself, if in the same condition, would make much of a difference. I would however be delighted to be proved wrong, as it would give more reasons for lines to have more older stock.

 

Neither the 83 SIII nor the 2002 110 are any better either. Brilliant cars, but definitely need to wrap up warm in them

 

Thank you for yet another fascinating nugget of information! Going off topic slightly, but could this provide a pretext for Calbourne to run in LSWR livery for a spell, without having to go to the trouble of removing the air brakes?

 

In the SVR's defence, I seem to recall that they originally applied to the HLF to build a GWR-style carriage shed, but the application was rejected. I am open to correction on that point, though. In any case, I would much rather the coaches were undercover than see them continue to rot outside while fund-raising for a "traditional" building dragged on!

I take you point about consistency; however, the downside of this approach is that, because pre-grouping equipment is so generally scarce, there would be few, if any, railways representing the pre-grouping scene if every railway opted for "consistency". That's why I'm glad that we also have railways like the Bluebell which are ready to "mix and match" the different eras, both in terms of rolling stock and stations.

 

I'm not convinced to be honest. A MK 1 in Chocolate 'n' cream will do just as much to install that sense of chocolate box nostalgia as a 1920's GWR coach in the same livery I reckon. one in blue and grey definitely won't though!

 

No change then, always carried a scraper in the winter to scrap the ice off the inside of the windscreen. Ermantrude was a 1962 long wheel base soft top and I had a lot of fun with it off roading all over Wales and Pennines for several years before "off roading" was invented. However the fairer sex was not always as keen, stopping off en route after the pictures was not a good idea if you fancied a quick one two as it was never warm enough for comfort. So sadly eventually the Landie had to go and was replaced with a 1972 Range Rover which had pulling power by the bucket load. This lasted for 30 odd years and several hundred thousand miles.

Brian

 

I am not concerned about photographs, I don't take them, but the problem with both buildings is that as you relax into your comfortable chocolate box version of the world as was....along comes a building on the inside of the railway fence that blows it completely.

I agree it is possible to have the 30s to 50s or even 60s done at different stations and done well. There was a relatively low rate of change over this period, and the colours etc largely complement each other. You would have trouble with 50s 60s and 70s or 60s 70s and 80s. To me it is about seeing it with film maker or theatrical eye. We are trying to "fool" people into believing in a bit of our world or our view into a world that was history (and that is itself a pastiche of what we all think we know is history, rather than being truly accurate). When that is successful (e.g. IOWR) we know that what we are seeing is "good". The SVR has it... then blows it all away.

 

I'm not sure you can say Highley is utterly spoilt, the Engine Shed lies outside the station area. If we are to list stations that are spoilt, high on my list I'm afraid is Sheffield Park where the new carriage shed and the cafe and other developments overwhelm the country station. BTW, I fully understand the need to provide facilities at stations and the need for undercover storage.

The carriage shed at Kidderminster is also well hidden from the station, as will be the diesel depot.

 

And the sheds at Ropley don't ?

 

Absolutely about stations in the 70s, 80s etc, no one would want to recreate them! Mid 60s is really as far as it ought to go I think. You have to have some sort of compromise with newer buildings like the carriage shed, they want to be under cover otherwise that heritage aspect would be ruined instead. the compramise for their ugliness is that they are fairly out of the way - I'm happy with that.

 

When I was a student travelling to and from University to home near Cheltenham, the rolling stock was all Blue-Grey and the loco at the front was often a class 45, possibly even 45149, now at Toddington. Not quite chocolate box nostalgia but nostalgia all the same! Regarding the strange concept of nostalgia; it doesn't always evoke pleasant thoughts. I distinctly remember seeing a Class 45 with its Blue-Grey Mk 1 and Mk2 stock coming into Birmingham New Street in late November 1974. I was very glad to get on that train for a weekend away as, the previous evening, several people had been killed in an IRA bomb attack in the City Centre and we had been to a faculty dinner that evening. I had not gone into the city centre first but some of my mates had; they were lucky not to be in proximity when the carnage ensued. I have never quite experienced an atmosphere like it in a large city before and don't want to again.

 

Since the spectre of Joe Public and his preferences has been raised, I think it's worth pointing out that he (and his wife) are much more concerned about what they can remember of their youth, which nowadays means the 1960s, 70s and 80s (and rising!)
As a small railway, with a correspondingly limited coaching stock, we have a pretty good idea of what our customers prefer, both from comments and by noting which carriages people get into first. The stock is- a BR Mk1 FK, Mk1 BS (suburban), GNR BTO (not it's original configuration) and a class 117 DTS ( used as a loco hauled driving trailer).
The favourites are the DMU vehicle, because of the excellent visibility and "I remember going to school on them" and the Mk1 suburban, again because of the school-days/London commuting memories (it's the same layout as an un-refurbished Eastern Region EMU). Expensive pre-nationalisation restorations are worth doing if they create a more efficient and sustainable vehicle than a Mk1, as with a Gresley, but I don't think that Joe Public cares two hoots!

 

I had the "misfortune", if that's the right word, to walk past the Sussex Arms (IIRC) in Covent Garden half an hour before that went up.......... also traveled into Liverpool St the morning after they blew the roof off..... not something I want to experience again either......

But we digress........

In the 80's I used to enjoy the luxury of an upgrade to first class on a spotting bash on the Manchester Pullman set.......

 

Not in the same way, no. The machine shop is architecturally similar to the offices at Eastleigh (very loosely similar I hasten to add). The side facing the station is clad in station colours and the result is that from many angles it looks appropriate, and railway like. Of course it is a compromise (the station originally had two sidings and no shed) but it is a compromise that is reasonably well carried off because the style is not tremendously different to the original station, and as a result manages to blend in. The eye is not drawn toward it. The modernity of the Engine House is an unpleasant intrusion because it is hugely different and therefore immediately catches the eye, and draws it away from old (as a building in isolation I actually would have nothing against it). Highley is not helped by the footbridge which also makes the eye wander toward the engine house, and dominates the station I feel. The footbridge is a compromise I could live with though for all sorts of reasons.
I seem to recollect that the lottery fund wanted a modern shed at Kidderminster as well.

I think that the choice is different on different railways. Mk1s with a "K" always fill faster than those with an "O" in my experience because they feel older to the public. Wood panelled "O" will always fill faster than formica panelled. The Bulleid brake always filled first. On the odd occasion it has been used the LMS Obs car will fill before all else because of the view. If we had a DTS (to steam haul) I imagine it would fill quickly too, but when we had a 117 it was tolerated, but much less popular than anything pulled by steam. The MHR pecking order (leaving the Belle set aside) is therefore: Steam hauled Obs car, then Bulleid , then Mk1 "K" then, wood panel "O", then the rest. DMMU would be next if we had one still, then diesel loco hauled train, then DEMU (although that is more popular than it was). Overall though there is very little evidence that Joe Public is all that interested in travelling behind a diesel even if they were born in the 1980s. There is less antipathy than there was, but not much enthusiasm in our experience.

 

That, I believe, has a heck of a lot to do with the local planners, and or English Heritage......... and I have absolutely nowt to do with the SVR....... but I agree with your comment it jar's with its setting, but if that was the planners stipulation, and you want/need to build something, you comply with the planners......

As regards E H, if you have an historic building,and want to expand, the extension now, apparently, has to be modern and not sympathetic to its surroundings to show to future generations it was never there in the first place........... how times and thinking change.......