York and Scarborough steam 2015

IF there's no Scarborough Spa Express next year, and the recently announced Dalesman runs as an alternative

IF the Scarborough Flyer still has gauging issues on the Standege route

IF the Waverley runs and is diesel hauled from York

It will be interesting to see the impact on the passenger numbers for the tour operators and on York/Scarborough visitor numbers..

Until last summer the above tours alone provided steam in York on five days each week during the summer, interesting times ?

I for one thoroughly enjoyed the previous activity.....

 

Ah - but won't Scotsman be running daily SSE's ?

 

Agree with Sheff, 4472 will be repaying the general public with runs to scarborough, would hope they go back to the basic York-Scarborough Itinery, twice a day.

 

What action will the local councils take to compensate for their loss of custom as train services divert elsewhere.

 

They'll open another chip shop.

 

But will they actually operate the SSE the same days and dates, as the Dalesman is Tuesdays and Thursdays from 30th June throughout July to the 27th August 2015 ?
The SSE is not on the WCR web site currently.

 

Same action that the local community around sellafield took when they banned turning of locos and Cambrian communities when steam was excluded there ??

 

An opportunity for another tour operator to do an SSE type operation in cahoots with DBS?

 

With probably the SSE stock on the new S & C trains, shortage of Mk1s for a Scarborough train too?
It's not as if Riviera are flush with them either, should DBS have the wish and crews.

 

I don't see a problem. If The Dalesman runs Tuesday / Thursday, a revised SSE could run Wednesday, Friday and Sunday. There's scope for an occassional Waverley or Hadrian, or perhaps York-Shildon shuttles on a Saturday. Same stock stays in York for the summer. So long as they can keep on top of the maintenance work on Mondays, looks like efficient use of the carriages.

 

An SSE programme has been announced for late October on the wcr website.

 

Suggests 4472 running-in on the ELR late summer, loaded tests during Oct?? Not that I'm counting any chicks just yet...

 

Would that be Half term?

 

The last reports I read indicated ELR would not be the venue for 4472 running in, NYMR being mentioned. This was reported as being due to some disagreement or other between engineer and railway.
It may of course have been a false report or a resolution found since.

 

Moved our Sheff bashing to its own thread..

http://www.national-preservation.co...aton-northampton-or-just-north-of-ere.397975/

 

The new Dalesman trip starts at York. So you can presume that the tour is meant to be steam hauled all the way. However, such a trip now avoids distruption should it come from Network Rail being more Ban happy in the LNE Region. With recent disagreements made public owing to the report, its clear WCRC have changed their operations to avoid less distruption and cater for Network Rails potential to be more inclinded to ban steam operation when it has the potential to cause distruption. This is still in the case of steam being slower, delays being paid out and on top of that the idea that fire risk can be a factor, even if the latter reason is used to justify it. Such bans have been placed on WCRC by Network Rail twice in three years, with the tour operator this year taking a massive hit for it.

Now, with a rerouted train, the potential for sales still remains high, and if there is distruption or the likelihood of steam needing to be be assisted by the new policies which post-date the distruption caused to WCRC three years ago, then the tour can be diesel hauled to Hellifield and then steam added from there, which is where even this year the LNW section were happy with WCRC operation.

As for the stock being in place, the York stock that would be doing the SSE is now doing the Dalesman. Im not sure if it due to run Sundays as well as it did last year. Presumably any Scotsman set would need to run when the Dalesman is not, assuming your only sending one set of stock to York and that Scotsman is indeed ready. It would be interesting to see if the Scarbrough Flyer is being run, as that makes it the only summer tour to still reach its north east seaside destination. As for the Wednesday run, it is now running as the Fellsman, from the north west as per usual but I think the name might have been changed from Dalesman.

All interesting, but I can see exactly why things have changed. It does seem Yorks insistance is Scarbroughs loss and Carlisles gain....

EDIT: Updated having checked wednesday S+C.

 

The WCR site says diesel hauled to Hellifield. Surely that means that unless things change, which they might, WCR won't be basing any steam at York next summer.

 

slowly but surely the S&C is becoming the last stand for regular mainline steam in the north

 

Im not sure just how much that is justified. A regular run of steam on a de facto timetable is pretty much impossible now. Rather, this is WCRC making moves to reduce the ammount of risk open to operations and thus protect its reputation and revenue. Its a shame that it has had to be so much adjusted, but a lot of this stems from a ruthless managerial team wanting effiencey and meeting business targets, some might even say - rightly so.

Steam enthusiast an operators should not be so down hearted. York was exposed as a bottleneck, and it will be interesting to see how a off season Scarbrough Spa Express runs when the chances of fire risk is virtually nil. Still, the destination might not be so appealing at that time of year, would Harrogate have been a better option?

As for a last stand again I think that is dispondancy at its best. Regular steam tours are still an area where the market can cater for the activity the public wants to experience. This has been a case where an event and a team have forced an action and WCRC have moved its operations to suit. I would think it might not have been so drastic should the hearing have found differently in its conclusions. One off tours like the White Rose on some days, or on other trains pathed for a specific day and time will still run to York, its just that the SSE was found to be the reason on how so much conflict grew between NR and WCRC because the tour stayed within LNE territory. Other areas in the north will still have steam, the Tyne Valley line for example will see it just as often as before, as would the mainline north of Darlington. Any change here about Steam in the north is merely the rerouting of the SSE to the S+C but because of its regular running such statistics will make it seem more significant than the reasoning behind it, when it should be seen as the opposite.

It is because of the debacle this season that the change is in place, the rest of the season looks to run as normal with the same ammount of tours and steam haualge.

 

Isn't there a gauging issue with plenty of larger types at Harrogate ?.

I wonder what will happen when said Mr Varser moves on, remember that irritant Alison Forster at FGW some years ago ?, how their tune has changed regarding steam since she moved on, this does irritate me however as it does indeed suggest too much influence is given to personal opinion over actual fact.

As for York being a bottleneck, well that's what you get taking out some south facing bays and the middle roads, a BR wrong that NR should look at putting right to add a little extra capacity in times of trouble.