The next newbuild

Thanks Kinghambranch.

A fully costed business plan for the frames is a good start.

What is the state of play with funds to meet the cost of the frames, and is there a secure base where the frames will be erected?

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As I understand it (and my "latest news" information is September 2014) fund-raising is concentrated on building up a sufficient amount of money to meet the cost of the frames. I'm not privy to any investigations or planning meetings so cannot be more specific than this. Now I know that's not the sort of thing a potential financial backer wants to hear or read but I really don't have that information yet.
What I can say is that, so far, most of the funding has come from individual donations and membership fees from a very small group of people and, like so many things that rely on voluntary funding, people won't bankroll it unless you have something tangible to bankroll, but the tangible "thing" that you need is going to be expensive! I guess the answer, as with so many things, is to get as many people to contribute as possible, it certainly works with 82045 and 45551.
To quote the last 77021 newsletter:
"In terms of advancing the profile of 77021 in the short term, we’ve come to accept that the cutting of the main frame plates constitutes the true "birth" of a locomotive in the minds of many. Until that point, we’re merely the owners of a collection of random lumps of metal, but once those frame plates are splashed over the internet and railway press, we become the custodians of a part- complete, or under- construction locomotive. Enquiries are being made with regards purchasing the steel and having it cut, and we’ll shortly be launching a dedicated frames appeal. It’s exciting stuff, and I want to involve as many of our members as we can."
So, as I interpret it, the Group will be launching a detailed fund-raising initiative soon as there is relatively little money in the "pot" at present (just under a Grand in September) and there is going to be a great deal of effort required to convince people to part with their money to support 77021, especially with other equally worthwhile new-builds coming on so well.

Regarding a home for the new-build; this is, of course, crucial and investigations are ongoing. The founding team had shown a preference for a Scottish base as these locos were only allocated to the Scottish and NE regions (except for 77014 which found its way to Guildford!) but they are investigating several possibilities and, perhaps more importantly at this stage, talking to people at various locations.

So early days yet but all I would say is to bear in mind that the 77021 group was only launched officially in August 2013 and has not had the benefit of a "jump-start" in funding which turned GWR 4709 from a dream to a rapidly-constructed set of frames and the rest.

The question of whether the world really needs a BR Class 3 locomotive to complete the BR Standard "set" when there are so many other worthwhile things to spend money on is not for me to say; I've decided that it does and so have a few others. Compared to some amazing projects out there, this one isn't all that difficult but will doubtless take longer and cost more than planned for!

 

That has been something that has impressed me about the 82045 project. An 82xxx will be a most useful loco for heritage railway operation but just compare it with more glamourous new-builds like Tornado or Beachy Head:- For those who remember BR steam, I guess quite a few would rank the A1s or the Brighton Atlantics as among their favourite classes whereas a humble 2-6-2T without a name would proabably have been overlooked until the last years of steam when the older classes had all been withdrawn. I doubt if many people would have numbered the 82xxxs among their favourite locos. However, the 82045 group has managed to "sell" what, on the face of it, is a pretty unglamorous loco to the wider enthusaist world and is making very substantial progress, as the newsletters show. Whatever the doubts some of us may have about some new-bild projects, 82045 definitely in the "when" rather than "if" category and I for one will look forward to seeing it in action. May I also add that when I sent a small donation to this project, I received a very pleasant "thank you" note featuring a drawing of 82045, which I really appreciated. I'm in the throes of a house move at the moment, so money is tight, but a little touch like this has made me consider the possibility of making a further donation in the future. Having a good PR machine is a great asset if you want your project to succeed.

 

John: I think the aim of the 82045 project has always been to demonstrate that we can build new "utilitarian" steam motive power for our Heritage lines for the future. The group never set out to build a "glamorous" engine.
I am sure that with all the work carried out on this loco, the batch production of similar engines using common parts would see the cost fall in proportion.
What is the motto? "Practical steam for the 21st Century" sums it up well.

As a specific project, I suppose this one demonstrates that you need to be well organised both from a publicity/fund raising aspect, and managing the engineering side of things. The 82045 people appear to have got it just right. Equally though there are other projects that will tick all the boxes.

As I have said before, the majority of customers ( Galas excepted) on our Heritage lines are not enthusiasts as such, but they do want to see a steam engine at the head of their train, so in that respect it does not have to be something big and green with a nameplate!

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Just like to echo that, I gave a few pounds a few years ago and I was given a badge, so now whenever Im at the SVR I always try make sure a few quid goes towards my new favorite engine. My funds are a bit tight at the mo but everytime I've given I've had a thankyou which costs nothing but certainly goes a long way.

 

Hope you'll forgive me for trimming your quote, there is one point you raise which I wish to address, ergo, that of civil engineering projects not getting the attention that glamorous big new build locomotives do. I recall that the P2 2007 and GWSR Bridges to Broadway appeals were launched at much the same time and that, for several months, their income was largely similar. The GWSR's previous appeal to rebuild Chicken Curve also met a magnificent response. I could also highlight numerous extension projects which involved major engineering works (Imberhorne tip and viaduct, to name but one) - and didn't the Severn Valley spend an absolute fortune on the Victoria Bridge some years ago? I seem to recall that Llangollen has done a lot to a bridge at Carrog recently too.

As regards ambitious enthusiasts needing to take a cold shower/reality check, I agree entirely (speaking from first-hand experience as one such), and not just over locomotives). I attempted to launch a new heritage line via Facebook a few years ago and, having attracted one experienced, though young, colleague, barely older than me (I'm 23), with whom I proceeded to walk the whole route (armed with camera and measuring tape and wheel). We then held a launch meeting in a local church hall last May, which, in hindsight, was the most incredibly badly-planned meeting I have ever been at. The humiliation still stings over seven months later. It was a total and utter disaster, from its late start to premature end. That I could be so incompetent and yet so blithely unaware of my incompetence... I remain ashamed of it all. In mitigation, I can say that some of those who spoke against the project were and are known local troublemakers, who seek to destroy anything that could bring any change, no matter how positive. One in particular, who had actually been a mature student in my A-level English Literature class, made herself so unpopular in the community that she was, a Parish Councillor told me, basically forced to move out of area, to another county.

Notwithstanding all of the above, the project isn't dead, we have swelled our numbers to five (so far) and we will be meeting on an informal social basis at some point in the New Year to assess future strategy. We still think that it is viable, but it will require far more realism and maturity than we have shewn hitherto.

 

Amazed I missed an opportunity to wax lyrical about the gwsr's fundraising! There's the gcr's as well of course, which is doing well too I blelieve.

Sounds like an interesting scheme brightonbaltic, NatPres tends to be a good measurements the success of things like this, how about starting a thread? Good to see I'm not the only young 'un around here...

 

I may do so at some point, but have been of the mind that we should have something more concrete than aspirations and hot air to offer! Right now, we have no formal organisation, no bank account, no funds, just a ton of research done and wounded dignities to massage! As you can predict from my handle, this line is on LBSCR territory, but joined LSWR metals at one end. Only two fit that description - and it's the one ATOC recommended for reopening in 2009. That's as much as I'll say for now!

 

I do wonder if we over egg this. There may be some customers on the preserved lines who couldn't tell the difference between a Castle and a 4F, but I bet its precious few, in spite of what gets said here. Hard to have been a bright child who read the Thomas series and not have a reasonable awareness of the variety of locomotive design out there for instance, or for that matter any kid who spent a few hours browsing the Triang Hornby catalogue. I'm sure there's no wide gulf between casual visitors and rabid enthusiasts, just a gentle gradient.

 

No I don't think we over egg this one little bit. I have encountered quite "sophisticated" people who could not tell a centenarian steam locomotive from a steam outline one! As for the countless parents who point at a green, red or black locomotive and exclaim to offspring "look there's Thomas" (groan), I really cannot say if this is through ignorance or "adult talk down to child" behaviour.

What is beyond doubt is that a large proportion of the gricer population is looking for excuses to run something fancier than the traffic warrants. Fancier carriages please. Fancier locomotives no.

PH

 

I'll definitely agree with the fancier carriages over fancier locos, but thr thing is not many other peoplw ill, so that's where they money will go. As for Thomas, I think it is mainly parents talking down to children, at least when parents point at 2807 especially but sometimes 7903 they say "Henry" instead of Thomas etc. And I know of many people who prefer "big tender engines" over smaller engines, so I think you're being a little harsh in saying that the public don't care or can't differentiate between some types of locos.

 

Let's be honest here. Joe public cannot see the difference between the various GWR 4-6-0 classes.

 

...and not just Joe Public!

 

Neither can I.

 

I can, and I am neither a rivet-counter nor an aficionado of the Godawful Worst Railway!

 

As for fancier carriages - have you seen the mess grockles make of a bog standard TSO? Wouldn't want to let them loose on anything with plush upholstery or intricate marquetry...

 

Oh I never said that, I wouldn't expect them too. I think though, that most people can distinguish between at least 3, possibly four differtent types - in order of preference; 1) Industrial locos, austerities etc. 2) mainline tank locos 3) tender engines 3a) unusual big engines, eg anything streamlined. On a seperate note, anything with a name peopl like more, as the P&D know only too well. If an industrial has a name then I reckon it will probably overtake at least some small mainline tank locos.

 

Agreed - why do you think the LBSCR named everything in sight for years! It's good PR and I have no problem with 5239 carrying lined green and the name Goliath...

 

Which is why, of the proposed 'new' GWR 4-6-0s the only one I have any enthusiasm for is Lady of Legend which although mechanically just about the same does at least look a little different with its more basic cab and square drop ends (not that Joe Public will even notice that!) as well as the historical significance of the design.

 

Indeed the "great unwashed travelling public," who by the way tend to pick up most of the "bill" [i.e.tickets, refreshements, overhaul/maintainance costs etc.] for our hobby can be quite discerning on occassion. Especially when it comes to the Gresley Teak stock when it arrives on an NYMR train and are most suprised that it doesn't cost extra to travel in them, other than the 1st class section to which there is a supplement, as these coaches are so different to the run of the mill Mk1.