Bluebell Motive Power

I think she did a few days of brake van rides, but certainly not very much. She's a bit of an awkward fit in a way. She certainly has the oomph to act as the Sheffield Park pilot, but the problem is that she can't steam-heat the stock (which rules out that duty before about March or after October - not a major problem) but more seriously, the pilot duty also has a half-trip to HK and back top'n'tailing the Sunday Lunchtime GA to speed turnaround at HK and shunting at SP, and Baxter isn't really ideal for that duty. So almost the only regular thing for her has been brake van rides at HK, or film charter work, or acting as a roving ambassador elsewhere.

That said, there has been talk about a plan for next season that should see her used slightly more often. Watch this space...

Tom

 

Talking of shunters what about the Howard petrol loco - has it been used since the 2010 gala appearance? It would be good to see it coupled to one of those Deltics.

 

In the latest Bluebell News, within the Chairman's report he mentions Baxter on goods train operations.

J

 

Perhaps something in the format of the IoWSR with regular freight turns?

 

Definitely ran brake van shuttles at Horsted on the anniversary weekend in March

 

Well, I'll certainly be interested to hear about it! But could it not be used for driver experience duties with a suitably light train?

 

See post #2023 above. I'd missed the fact that the chairman alluded to goods train operation in BN! I don't think the full details have been published, but as I understand, the intention is to run a regular (probably once per month) goods train day from SP to Kingscote, partly as an attraction in its own right, and partly to maintain and develop competence amongst loco crews and guards in running unfitted trains. (They will only run to Kingscote to allow time for the brake van to change end while fitting in one of the spare paths in the timetable).

It's possible, but like lots of things, it requires getting together a proposal to operate the service commercially (working out the scheme, insurance, rostering instructors etc) and all those things are in short supply. In the past Clive Groome ran footplate courses as his own business with the railway providing a loco, but Clive shouldering the commercial risk. That worked very well, but during the loco shortage, he moved the majority of his courses to Isfield, and although he still volunteers as a driver on our service trains, the courses haven't come back. Hopefully the motive power situation is a bit better now and it could be revived, but it would require impetus to start courses back up again, and I get the sense that the plc focus is elsewhere in running the main scheduled service, and there aren't exactly a surfeit of instructors available who could put in the extra time to run courses over and above their regular volunteering days.

Tom

 

You mean to say the bluebell railway offers no driving experiences!!?? Even the smallest railways offer this, I'm amazed the Bluebell doesn't, I'd have thought it would be quite lucrative the prices that these things generally are.

 

Different railways have different business models. Just because some railways run driving courses doesn't mean every railway should run these courses.

 

Didn't say they should, just surprised that they don't. As I said, given that even the smaller lines do it, must be quite lucrative, although presumably the bluebell has its reasons...

 

It depends on the railway and it depends on the costs of the loco and the staff required to run them. They may not be the moneyspinner that some think.

 

Perhaps we should be looking at how, given it's collection, the Bluebell was in a worse position to offer a steam engine than Isfield were....

 

I think Isfield hired a loco in (for a while they were using Martello). As I understand, the general setup was that Clive ran his courses on a Saturday when that railway was otherwise not running a service, and then the same loco was used for the service trains on Sunday. So in effect, the Lavender line could get a second income stream on a day they were otherwise shut but without changing their overall locomotive requirement - which clearly made financial sense in their position. Whereas on the Bluebell, running the courses essentially require provision of a loco that would otherwise find very little use. All the time Stepney was available, she could fill that role, but once she went out of traffic back in about 2009 (and needed to be restored quickly for the 50th anniversary) there wasn't another suitable loco, and not a lot of sense for the company to restore one when the railway needed bigger locos in traffic. You could probably argue now that Baxter could fill the role, but things have moved on - there are only so many things that you can do within the available resource, and no-one said FootEx courses were compulsory!

Tom

 

It was also to do with it being impractical for the line to offer a guaranteed loco for private hire on a regular basis when providing that loco might mean there was nothing available to run the core service. Don't forget that the courses were run by Clive Groome as a private business, and not by the Bluebell, so it would have been unfair to him as well to risk him having to cancel. They were stopped at a time when money and locos were very tight, and it wasn't sensible to divert resources to keeping a spare loco free for the courses (this was while the big push to East Grinstead was afoot).

It goes without saying that the courses provided benefits for the BB (hire fees, buffet takings at HK, publicity, encouraging people to volunteer, added interest for visitors), but I think it was fair that the core services had to take precedence. The line were happy to let Mr Groome source his own loco and use that, but it was probably impractical for many reasons.

Personally (having done and loved a Footplate Days and Ways) course, I would love to see them back, and you could say that having Baxter available and 178 restricted to light duties (such as footplate courses) is the ideal opportunity. I've got no idea what the relationship between BB and Mr Groome is like now, but the fact he volunteers still is hopefully a positive. I will say that he gave me a lift home to Brighton after a day of volunteering once, and a nicer man you couldn't hope to meet.

I seem to remember that a trial course was run in house in about 2011 with Fenchurch wasn't it? When the line was otherwise shut for engineering work...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

In some distant time in the future presumably you'll start laying track towards Ardingly. There's an obvious opportunity, especially for the interim period when through trains would not be possible.

 

Just been on the Bluebell Facebook page and it seems 73082's boiler had its out of frames test at Crewe yesterday.

 

Footplate experience can be very much like Photo Charters - great ways of earning income when there isn't the demand to run a passenger service, or the need to have the railway available for engineering work. Where lines do have the demand for public services, they may well prove more lucrative. Whilst the Bluebell's past arrangement may have been the most extreme example, I gather that at least some lines with very successful "in-house" Footplate Experience operations have a dedicated team as many crews understandably don't want to come in to supervise other's driving. The worst situation is cancelling or diesel hauling passenger trains while running light engines or short trains with an available steam loco on Footplate Experience work.

On the NYMR, we have found that the best return is available from the courses that use least resources and don't actually involve the participants in handling the locomotive at all. We have also found that people who start off as paying participants can end up as volunteers - and not always in the footplate link!

Steven

 

Isn't that what its all about?...... they already have the bug, but once they're hooked...... the "drug" that is steam is hard to give up......

 

A lot of participants aren't hooked on the steam drug. They have had it bought s an unusual birthday present.
I do wonder about the profitability of these courses, especially with the larger locos. What price the provision of a loco? Let's say £700. Even if you don't have to hire it, there is still a notional cost and that figure isn't far off the mark. Add in the cost of coal/oil/water. £500. The crew can come cheaply at £50/person (even volunteer time needs costing). If the line is opened specially there will be other people involved, perhaps a signalman/duty officer. At a minimum you are looking at about £1300 to put on a day. NYMR charge £645/person for a 'Silver' course (according to the website), which is for two people so I reckon that they are just about breaking even! Railways using smaller locos might have lower overheads but I suspect that they don't charge as much.

 

You need to look at the marginal cost of providing it. If the loco is otherwise not in use and can be provided fairly easily, and you have some willing volunteer staff it could probably be done fairly cheaply, assuming a day when the railway was otherwise open. As you say if the line had to be opened specially and staff used who could otherwise work a service day the cost would be much higher.

It seems the Bluebell could provide something fairly simply by using the now light duties only 178, as the money has been spent to restore it already so it may as well make a return than not be used. Having said that, they could put on something really special by using 592 and the Mets to run a trip along the line on a day with no other trains, but then you are using a service loco and the marginal cost has just shot up. They would need to decide what sort of price could be charged for each one.

You could, of course, look into selling cab rides rather than the experience part...