"Preserved" steam locos that were subsequently scrapped

Be fair, it was a brief answer to my brief question

 

Exactly. Somebody asked a question and I answered it. Folkestone will get regenerated and that land will be reused. Lots of lovely houses...

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you are really deluded, thats all i can say, you obviously have a very deep hatred of someone to do with the scheme, or you work for someone concerned with the regeneration, all this is a separate matter, it has nothing to do with 35011, or 35025 , as i stated the land the engines sit on has a legal lease in place , and the son of les Birch can not evict anyone without a very expensive legal action, this mater will only be decided by the owners of the 2 engines they will either sell them, or they will pass them over to the SKA on their deaths. if they end up being dismantled it will be because its what the owners want, not what the owners of the farm.

 

Not quite sure he's deluded just trying to talk sense me I think

 

If the group who wanted to preserve the branch disband because the station etc is built on, they will most likely sell the lease if able to and all the rolling stock will have to find a new home or be scrapped. Just because they they are safe there now there doesn't mean they will be safe there in the future.

 

Deluded? Hatred? Good grief, just stating the obvious. The Rememberence Line was hopeless from the start. I remember the post one of them had on here when said they were going to build a shed using second hand lighting columns! Oh, I do work for a property developer but not that one (boo-hiss!)

 

You know, I was actually quite interested in knowing about locos that were retained for a while and eventually scrapped. Somewhat less interested in the debate about what to do with other people's property or what might or might not happen in the future. For all we know there could be another war and the whole lot melted down to make AK47's.

So back on that topic, kinda, is there any truth in the idea that a D16 (Claud) was retained for a while at Stratford but eventually broken up (again because it was 'not original')?

 

Hi Bob, Just found some info in one of Jim Peden's books. 'Salmond' was from BICC Prescot and sold to the MMRS members in July '66. It was stored @ ICI Gaskell Marsh Works Widnes until presumed scrapped. I've updated my list in post # 76.
Cheers, Ray.

 

Those rumours were rife around 1960 and concerned several classes-D16, B12, J15, F5, N7, a tram engine, etc., and were encouraged by the fact that several locos that were officially preserved were stored at Stratford and, because of the large number of engines that were being scrapped there, some hung around for a time, which encouraged speculation. In fact, of that list, 3 were privately preserved, a B12 and J15 by the M&GN Society and an N7 by the late Dr. Fred Youell. I know that there had been private interest in other locos- I had inquired about a J69- but nothing came of it. I believe that a D16, B12 and J15 were considered for official preservation but rejected, in the case of the D16 and B12 because of non-originality and the J15 because of it's similarity with the E4. The J17 was preferred because it was considered to be more representative. I believe that the last GER tram engine, withdrawn from Colchester about 1954, hung around Stratford for a time, but was scrapped in the late '50s, along with the Wisbech & Upwell coach which featured in the "Titfield Thunderbolt" and an LT&SR coach which had been restored for the LT&SR centenary in 1956.

 

What I understand the shed master wanted the B12 preserved, so the engine was stored and not withdrawn, and only let it go when M&GN Society were able to buy the engine and this was most likely the same with the J15. The last J70 was withdrawn 08/55 from Colchester with 3 others also withdrawn the same year.

 

So the story about the D16 on the scrap line having 'save' written on one side only and being approached by the man with the gas axe from the other is just a myth?

 

re the J15s, from M&GN soc website "After withdrawal, four of the class were retained for possible preservation and put into open air storage at Stratford. During the previous October, the M&GNJRS had decided to buy a J15 for use on its scheme to reopen one of the closed M&GN lines and had started to raise the £750 required. The Society had initially planned to have 65469, but a crack was found in its frames and so 65462 was purchased instead, mainly because of the stovepipe chimney. Sadly the others were cut up for scrap" and from the same site regarding the B12 "In October 1959, 61572 was transferred to Norwich but was soon withdrawn as a result of a cracked cylinder. However, as it was one of the last surviving B12s and Bill Harvey, the Norwich shedmaster, had an affection for the B12s, he discovered that it wasn’t a cracked block, but a pitted casting and the loco was soon reinstated. 61572 stepped out of the shadows to become a bit of a celebrity and very soon became the Norwich mascot engine. At a time when the rest of the B12 class were being withdrawn, Bill kept 61572 busy, and regularly worked the Lowestoft–Whitemoor goods train between Norwich and Kings Lynn (via Dereham). Passenger trains from Norwich to Melton Constable (coincidentally running over the line which is now its home), and a railtour for the Midland and Great Northern (M&GN) Society, later to be the engines owners. Had it not been for Bill keeping 61572 busy, allowing funds to be raised in order to buy the loco, it would have probably been scrapped! "

 

The person concerned was Bill Harvey, who did much to help preservation in the early days. He even ensured that the loco water tank from Laxfield, Mid-Suffolk Light Railway, had a further lease of life at the Ffestiniog!

 

Probably! The trouble is that Stratford was such a huge site, with so many locos and so much activity, that it was difficult to know what was going on. I went there on "official" visits in 1957/8 & 9 and was keen to see as much as possible, particularly of the more obscure stuff that was, or was supposed to be, there. But there was just so much! The running shed (the "Jubilee") and the surrounding sidings contained the "normal" operating engines, the "New Shed" (it was actually the oldest!) was used for repairs and often contained interesting odds and sods, departmentals, known as "pots", lived in other sheds and tin huts- and then there was the works, which was full of and surrounded by, locos from all over Eastern England and beyond, even including privately-owned industrials, in for heavy repair and overhaul. That's without the extensive scrap sidings and the carriage department, where, incidentally, the preserved items were rumoured to be. It was all there- by 1959, apart from the dozens of classes of steam locos that could be seen, several classes of early diesels, some experimental and "demonstrators", also came initially to Stratford, as it was the first major depot with diesel facilities.

It really was too much to take in. Over the years I have known many people who worked at Stratford, but have found it impossible to get absolutely definite information about all those locos that were allegedly reserved for preservation. One thing I am sure of though; anything that got into the Stratford scrap sidings was very unlikely to come out in one piece!

 

Ahh, this takes me back! The last four J15s survived almost to the end of steam in E.Anglia, in September 1962, not particularly because of planned preservation, but because of a serious operational need. A few lines had severe weight restrictions, J15s were the heaviest locos allowed on them and were essential to maintain goods services. The most notable was the Maldon branch, which featured a couple of wooden viaducts, and for which a pair of J15s were kept on at Colchester. 204hp diesels were tried but were too small to handle the size of trains, "350"s and type 1s were considered too heavy, but eventually the CCE allowed the use of the BTH type 1.
When the J15s were not required for the Maldon goods, they were sometimes used on stopping passenger services on the Colchester main line. When I was commuting to Colchester in the winter of 1960/61 I had the pleasure of travelling behind them a couple of times.
Re the wooden viaducts, an old driver once told me that they always whistled-up when approaching them, to give the wood-worms a chance to link arms!

 

In his autobiography, Alan Bloom said that he wanted to preserve the last "Claude" in 1962, but he couldn't afford a full-size engine at that time. Apparently he even tried to interest the Norfolk Steam Engine Club (of which he was a committee member) in purchasing her, but that organisation was dominated by road-steam enthusiasts who weren't interested. If only...!

 

you will find that the late Bill Harvey had an awful lot to do with the B12 being saved for preservation! his influence and involvement are very well documented!
cheers,
julian

 

Didnt he just ignore his boss's everytime it was called for scrap, he just didnt send it?!