Next New Build to be completed

Oh yes it is. Money tied up in something making glacial progress is money doing nothing and the "experience gained" will be non existent if there is no-body alive to transmit the know -how to a new generation when the order comes to be placed. Remember no large locomotive boilers have been built in the U.K. for fifty years and most of the the projects which do seem to be making relatively rapid progress are based on re-using existing boilers. It all sounds a bit "jam tomorrow and jam yesterday but never jam today".

Ph

 

I'd call this "Jam Today" but perhaps I should tell some of the younger folk both working and volunteering on it that they are wasting their time and effort.

Or maybe by cutting a trail for preserving skill and building boilers in the UK their actions are to all our benefit.

 

Whilst it is true that each new build attracts new money into the movement, it will also lead to diversion of some money away from existing projects. Yes individuals can say that I only contribute to x and I wouldn't contribute to y, but there will also be a number of individuals who would have contributed to y had x not been started as a project and now will reduce or cease their contribution to y.

What is virtually impossible to measure, however, is whether the former outweighs the latter and if the diversion of resources is such as to delay the completion of some projects.

 

Nonsense, utter nonsense. There is the boiler for the G5 to start with. How many new boiler barrels have been manufactured for various BR Standard 4s, both tender and tank types? How many new fireboxes have been made? It is only two rows of rivets to put a firebox and boiler barrel together. You make it sound like rocket science.

 

My current expectations are as follows

L&B Lyn (Well managed project, clear projected goals and timescale)
LBSCR H2 No 32424 (Fantastic progress to date, but completion date not close enough to predict)
Saint Class No 2999 (Slower progress than the H2, but significant progress to date with the boiler in a similar condition to the H2)
Corris 10 (Already completed 1 new build, boiler ready, extension to running line to take priority?)
NER/LNER Class O/G5 No 1759 (Bit of a risk this one, but progress generally seems pretty good with funds available to progress, boiler complete?)
Class 3MT No 82045 (Good progress with a lot achieved, planned work identified and regular updates made to the public - this latter point in my opinion will put it ahead of other builds due to increased public support generated from keeping them informed and regular significant progress being made)
Grange No 6880 (Slower progress than other builds IMHO but with significant components available it should maintain its place in the queue)
Patriot 45551 (Good intentions and progress demonstrated, still a long way to go IMHO though (Bigger task than 82045))
L&B Yeo (I'm sure this build will re-enter the mix following the completion Lyn and with the itch to maintain progress of new/restored loco's and stock, together with very real possibility of a significant extension in the next 10 years. Bolstered of course by the availability of a full set of drawings/castings etc)
BR 2MT No 84030 (Good progress being made, working alongside 82045 which is mutually beneficial)
P2 Prince of Wales (Will move up the queue if any of those above slow up progress and availability of funds. Fully expected to succeed following in Tornado's footsteps and with the support already secured)

I suspect we may well find a new build WHR single Fairlie entering the mix above too! ;-)

I'm sure that some of the others will happen (perhaps not all of them) but I wouldn't like to hazard a guess as to when!

I'd also like to throw a new build LMS 2P into the mix, but that’s little more than a pipe dream at this stage!


Paul

 

Rubbish, utter rubbish! Many a Barry restoration took 20 years or more. So was the money tied up in them doing nothing? Of course it wasn't, it was funding the overhaul. The same goes for newbuilds.

 

Says who? Just because you don't think so doesn't make you right. Those people donating money are probably very aware that they will not see a loco appear for many years and indeed some may also accept that they will never see the loco they are helping to fund, who are you to deny them the right to make those donations? If railway X is happy for group Y to take Z years to complete their loco (whether it be a restoration or a new-build) then what's the problem?

As other have stated above, boilers are regularly having major work done to them so the chances of the skills dying out are remote.

Lighten up and let others enjoy their hobby!


Keith

 

Nonsense, utter nonsense. (you see two can play that game with postings disagreed with) The G5 boiler, which has yet to be used, is a small to medium one, emphatically not large at all which is one reason why that project appeals to me. Boiler making certainly isn't rocket science but a trade skill. All trade skills have wrinkles that have to be passed on from one generation to another. Rocket science can be learned from a book.

PH

 

Not earning a penny piece. The A.1 Locomotive Trust for example, seem to know all about the need to minimise downtime.

PH.

 

And you clearly haven't a clue on how a Barry restoration works/worked. Very few had the money in place when the job started so it was a often a case of matching progress to rate of income. Any money held in the bank wasn't dead, it was simply awaiting the next bill. As for the A1 team and downtime, that's all well and dandy once the loco is up and running but they had to build it in the first place. Was the money tied up in the build process wasted? Of course it wasn't.

 

Isn't your normal refrain, though, "nothing larger than a Terrier" has had a new boiler? The G5 is clearly larger and, whatever you might say about its reliability, so is Tornado - which has a huge new build boiler, and has completed tens of thousands of revenue-earning miles. So I'm not sure, beyond cost, what the big concern is with constructing new boilers. As I remember, one of the most difficult manufacturing problems to solve - so far - on Beachy Head was finding a manufacturer to put a simple joggle in the main frames. But that, like many other problems, was solved.

I'd suggest you look at the problems NASA are having trying to get the Saturn V main engines working again for the next generation space launcher - it turns out that rocket science is very much a trade skill, and can't be all learnt from a book!

But didn't Tornado take about 15 years from conception to launch into traffic - during which time it was not earning any revenue?

Tom

 

Hi,

There are quite a few locos that have had pretty extensive rebuild of boilers in recent times, 34027 at the SVR has been a pretty big undertaking and Im sure I remember reading somewhere that 61264 and 45428 have both had pretty comprehensive boiler works.

Looks like 80097 has seen some pretty extensive surgery too- substatial new sections?
http://www.burystandard4group.org.uk/80097-br-4mt/boiler


Chris

 

Drivel Paul absolute drivel, no large locomotive boilers have not been built in this country for only one reason and that is not down to skill set but down to money. In preservation the goalposts are constantly moving, and I for one can remember those that said it can't be done, only to watch a few years down the line it becoming common place, remember the lack of cylinders on the Duke Of G the mags screamed the impossible dream or words to that effect, now replacement cylinders are quite common. To look at boilers it was once said that standard guage boilers are impossible, the terriers, FR20, Tornado all show what can be done it just takes time and cash.

 

It had some false starts and took a long time to get going but the current management seem to appreciate fully the need to crack on, both in the construction and subsequent maintenance periods. For instance the building of the boiler in Germany, which produced a lot of harrumphing at the time and has not been without subsequent problems, enabled the machine to be out earning money as early as possible. The A1 people have good business awareness.

In my more cynical moments (yes really) I wonder, had alternative sourcings for the boiler been pursued, if it would have been running yet!

Not arising from your posting Tom but a convenient time to deal with the issue, the fact remains that the largest new boilers in preservation so far have been on various examples of A1x and several newbuild projects have been spurred on by the existence of a suitable second-hand donor boiler.

Paul H

 

Maybe rather than arguing about the engineering, financial, personal, organizational and semantics' of new build. We should concentrate on the very real fact that several will have fires in their bellies in the near future. Equally encouraging are the number that are likely to follow.

Proof, if it were needed that the dreams and determination of individuals or groups of people, are not constrained by personal views. If I have learned anything in this movement, it is that the impossible is possible, and long may that continue to be the case.

 

Drivel, drivel, to repay the "complement". If skills needed for a previous generation are allowed to die out it becomes necessary to train up new people. For an example outside of steam railways, when Uppark House in West Sussex burnt out, it was necessary to train new plasterers, gilders etc. because of the sheer amount of work needed.

Similarly, narrow gauge lines have been re-boilering cheerfully for fifty years but have had the services of people dealing with the traction engine world to draw upon. These are unlikely to be able to deal with larger units in the same way as, say, a boatyard expert with river launches is unlikely to be able to cope with Cutty Sark or H.M.S. Victory. Small standard gauge locomotives have received new boilers from these small manufacturers.

PH

 

Can we not make this more exciting and lay down some bets?

 

I bet this thread will run and run, but will not rival the WSRA saga for ultimate length

 

Hello,
I cannot see the Dean Goods in the list, I am eagerly awaiting its first steaming........!

Nick

 

But the skill set is already available - you only have to look at the work undertaken to Taw Valley (or even 4472) to realise it's only a hop and a skip to build a large boiler and it just takes time and cash. Hopefully it won't be too long before one of the new builds will prove you wrong.