WCRC Licence Suspended

Fred I think you are mixing up the RAIB report on the 34067 dropped rod with the 5972 issues last year. In the former case the point you make about the same eyes was made.

 

I know, but just surprised that there is no physical failsafe.

The thing with the TPWS seems to have been lost in the discussion of the wider malaise at WCRC. At best something very peculiar happened on the footplate of Tangmere for the sequence of events identified to have occurred.

 

Perhaps the driver and fireman were not made aware of the temporary magnet, and assumed the tpws had gone faulty - then when it came on disabled it believing it to be not working the way it's supposed too. Maybe the root of the 'procedures and practises' discussion has more to do with driver information supply over multiple routes ?

 

So you're saying we shouldn't run railway services at all and then we'll all be completely safe?

I could wander up to Waterloo today and tell the driver of one of the 450s that he absolutely shouldn't leave the station. After all, what if a wheel fell off? They would quite rightly point out that I was talking rubbish and what was I doing standing under that perilous station roof? What if it collapsed?

Both of those are ifs which, provided proper design, manufacture, use and maintenance, are highly unlikely. However, passing a signal at danger and overrunning onto a converging junction makes for a 'What if you hit something?' which is entirely too probable for comfort, since preventing it is the entire reason the signal is there in the first place. Dismissing the potential lethality of a mistake just because the fatalities that didn't happen are what-ifs is a recipe for repeating it until success is achieved.

In answer to your earlier question, the reason nobody's worrying about the next train is that Tangmere was hauling the next train due through that junction, which is why the points were set in her favour, but the section was not yet clear. So most plausible scenario in which this could have gone even more wrong was if the preceding train was running later (or Tangmere earlier).

 

I'm just providing a possible explanation given the facts provided - not trying to say what actually happened...!

 

Magnets and tpws etc. are there to help the crew but their primary responsibilty is to observe and respond to the signals which, for whatever reason, they appear not to have done.

 

That's just it, we don't know all the facts............ all we do know is, that WCRC are currently banned from operating on the network, due to a culmination of perceived misdemeanours........... NR gave WCRC enough rope to hang themselves, which they have done.

After that, its all conjecture on our parts...............

 

Usually only in places where SPADs are likely or relatively common (remember there are about 250 SPADS a year on the network) and where the consequences of a SPAD are very bad indeed. You can't have catch points on every Signal guarding every junction, and this is where ATPS comes in.

 

I will lay money on the RAIB report listing an unexpected TSR magnet as a contributory factor to the SPAD, I will also lay money on the fact that the crew not being aware of the TSR magnet lies at the root of the suspension. NR beat up WCRC last time because they couldn't prove the crew had received and digested the fire restriction notice, I'll bet you any money you like WCRC can't prove the crew had received and digested the TSR notice. The same issue in less than 12 months and WCRC going quiet on steps to improve that issue - lies at the root of an unprecedented action by NR

 

Sorry. The safety management system should have a day today operational process for loco and stock providers and owners to provide any engineering, maintenance, regulatory and safety requirements that WCRC require to operate the service. That process should provide visibility for all levels within WCRC that would pass a safety audit. That specifically means not compartmentalising them (suppliers) and us (operators) A socket that you provide that someone else can plug into and you have connectivity both ways.

 

And WHAT IF? What if the steam train was running a couple of minutes early with the road set for the Up Paddington to Swansea yet to reach the junction? Not only would Tangmere have derailed but the HST would not have had time to stop. Now that really is scary. It really is all too close for anyone's comfort which clearly has led us to where we are today. It give me the creeps every time I think about it.

During my days as a BR signalman, mishaps did happen. At Taunton in 1961, the down 1V93 Liverpool to Plymouth was one of the rare scheduled steam trains of that time among all of the Warship diesels. On this occasion, 1V93 was doubled headed and the train ran past the down relief starting signal which was at danger by some 200 yards and came to a stand on the points leading from the down Minehead and Barnstaple bays. I have always thanked the good Lord that a train was not leaving the bay at the same time. I do not recall what action was taken against the crew of the leading engine.

 

Isn't that what NatPres is here for? We have at least one poster who has moved from the role of air crash investigator to railway safety expert. Is there no end to this forum's talents?

 

Highly probable. And remember after the Olton Hall incident one of the conclusions from the Access Adjudication Report was:

Odds on that WCR have failed to comply.

 

Yawn

 

Yes I have already posted that I think the driver may have been confused by the aws warning for the temporary speed restriction. The tsr was for 85 mph and maybe because of that the driver dismissed it from his mind after reading the notices which would affect his train.

Don

 

We keeping you awake?

 

I was under the impression that if any train had a SPAD, that the driver was removed and either replaced with another if spare, diesel pilot ie north briton tour at tyne yard a few years back when a 66 was summoned or tour cancelled there and then like when something happened a few years ago with 60009 near hendon i think it was when it ran a red before going up the mml to york.

This tour with Tangmere was sat in Swindon for quite some time before leaving under its own power.

Do we know if crew were removed and if so were they actually replaced with people with the relevant paperwork to actually drive and fire the thing??

Just a thought.

 

Very interesting, thanks for sharing with us.