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WCRC Licence Suspended

Discussion in 'What's Going On' started by 5944, Apr 2, 2015.

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  1. RalphW

    RalphW Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Administrator Friend

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    I was involved in the chemical industry and can back up what you say, in our case all the routine chemical analysis results were meticulously filed, but it was a long time before the penny dropped with someone who realised that the reagents used in the analysis were not being included. External audits over several years never flagged this up, so although we were selling a bulk product that the paperwork showed as being fully traceable, there was this gaping flaw in the system. This was with a well known global petroleum company who, when it came to paper,work, were super keen.
     
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  2. Martin Perry

    Martin Perry Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Moderator Friend

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    I'm getting to be quite unpopular with some of our suppliers at work, when I ask to physically check what they are supplying, and to witness function or pressure testing :)
     
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  3. 26D_M

    26D_M Part of the furniture

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    Self certification carries too many incentives to cut corners. Always carry out a temptation analysis of any process to work out where the flaws are is sound advice. Deal with the findings accordingly.
     
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  4. oldmrheath

    oldmrheath Well-Known Member

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    A quality system accreditation is no more a guarantee of quality than a 5* hygiene rating guarantees that the local takeaway will not have an off-day when you happen to go in for a burger - it's about degrees of confidence, hopefully reducing the need to test/ inspect everything you make or do.

    Whether, for example, RTC, sending in the auditors to WCRC would achieve anything more than existing processes I've no idea, but it would have a cost associated with it.

    Jon
     
  5. 242A1

    242A1 Well-Known Member

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    Paperwork trails are indeed worthless. I have come across so many examples over the years. Assemblies that have been certified as having passed a hydrostatic test that exhibit no sign of internal moisture. A little unpaid overtime and the bursting of a hose or the loss of a poorly swaged fitting or even the lack of tested electrical continuity just make you less trusting and more determined to take all testing in house. Worse are those assemblies that are so poor that they could not be tested in the first place - swivel females do not work if they have been installed the wrong way round.
    Then you have the issue of materials that do not meet the specification required or certified. We all know of the problems caused by copper supplied for use as stay material that was unfit for purpose. IR has taken matters into his own hands and has equipped himself to double check in house.
    Take things further and check on the those companies heavily involved in the oil industry, where they will accept steel from, where not and why. I experienced not only fraudulent materials but also sub standard manufacture.
    Paperwork only confirms paperwork. It guarantees nothing.
     
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  6. MarkinDurham

    MarkinDurham Well-Known Member

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    I'm serving in a brand new Chinese built ship. Let's just say that she and her sister, according to all the paperwork signed off by the Classification Society Surveyor at the shipyard, should be absolutely perfect. The reality is VERY different...
     
  7. rule55

    rule55 Member

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    One thing RAIB reports don't do is name those involved and they do differ from the old HMRI reports of yesteryear in that regard. However, I'm not sure that stating that so and so was involved with a different job on the day in question is a particularly gallant thing to do either as it just narrows the field for those predisposed to circle above the carrion.

    Just saying, like.

    There are some things best left unsaid..
     
  8. david1984

    david1984 Resident of Nat Pres

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    The basic fact is simple at the end of the day, WCRC has to play ball how NR want, or they don't come back to play, even if they may feel hard done by in various things, they need to knuckle under in this case as it's best for everyone concerned.

    A third player in the steam charter market would be ideal, but even if one was hypothetically being put together now, that takes time, so we are held over a barrel with regards to WCRC complying in the short term.
     
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  9. Victor

    Victor Nat Pres stalwart Friend

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    Yes indeed, NR rail weren't best pleased with them when Mr Verster had "an issue" with them recently, they should have got the message then. And if WC don't comply............NR rail will win and who knows where it will go from there.
    A safety issue like the latest Tangmere incident, one that has had wide national publicity, will have done WC's reputation no good at all. It's going to have far reaching consequences.
     
  10. Fred Kerr

    Fred Kerr Resident of Nat Pres Friend

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    This also raises the question of what response will come from Jeremy Hoskins set-up at Crewe following rumours that a passenger licence is being sought.
     
  11. Big Al

    Big Al Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Moderator

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    Moving on to GB VIII that's a flagship trip for both the RTC and for WCR. The routes involved can probably only be covered by WC crews as I recall that the scope for DBS to help out will be limited by what they are able to do, even if pilotmen are available. And then there is the vacuum/air brake matter and the back up Class 47 that usually tracks the tour.

    Can't help but think that once the holiday period is over, this will become the focus, apart, of course, from the obvious.
     
  12. Victor

    Victor Nat Pres stalwart Friend

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    I'm not interested in the name of the driver.
     
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  13. alastair

    alastair Well-Known Member

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    Indeed,the financial implications of cancellation,with prepaid hotels and so on,would be huge for RTC. Having said that,if they are not able to deliver something like what was advertised then they may have no choice. And leaving aside GBVIII,the damage that the WCRC debacle will cause to other suppliers such as train catering and fire engine/watering companies and so on must be hurting already.
     
  14. 61624

    61624 Part of the furniture

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    A lot will come down to what the contracts between the various participants say. It isn't difficult to imagine that m'learned friends will be the overall winners!
     
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  15. spicer21

    spicer21 Guest

    I haven't heard those rumours, but it'd be a logical step for his organisation to take. If it happens, I can imagine JH moving in on a lot of WC's turf while they're "off the scene" so to speak. Much depends on how WC address NR's concerns, and how quickly, but IF setting up a TOC is on JH's agenda, this affair could move it up the priority list while there's a chance to mop up some business !
     
  16. RalphW

    RalphW Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Administrator Friend

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    Quite a few posts concerning the identity of the driver concerned have been removed, this speculation is not going to serve any purpose except cast aspersions at the wrong people.
     
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  17. spicer21

    spicer21 Guest

    As per usual !
     
  18. 26D_M

    26D_M Part of the furniture

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    A protem partnership with D&CR possibly? SRPS has some stock too so they could be in the mix.
    Depending how long the suspension lasts there will be WCR crew that will will need to maintain both route knowledge and income presumably. Not sure how frequently a route has to be driven in order to keep it 'signed'.
     
  19. MellishR

    MellishR Resident of Nat Pres Friend

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    RTC aren't fools. I would hope and expect that, when they make the hotel bookings, they make some provision for the possibility of the tour being cancelled. As for possible law suits; there's no point in suing someone who would be unable to pay.
     
  20. twr12

    twr12 Well-Known Member

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    Hear hear!
     
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