Main Line Steam - Possible ramifications of the WCRC suspension

The ORR have not suspended the WCRC track access license, NR have. NR have specified the points for resumption and its their satisfaction that is currently required.

The ORR may bite later, much later, when the RAIB report is published.

 

Seems to me the only hoops are those being invented on here. Whilst I have no doubt, based on WCRC's last management performance, they will be bullish and issue defiant and confident noises (possibly unhelpful and inflammatory to the relationship with NR even) I have no doubt they will be capable of meeting NRs requirements well before the required cutoff dates. There is, to date, no official word from the ORR that they are investigating, let alone preparing a case for persecution, all of this is froth and speculation, tho it does meet with the required general attitude, on here anyway, of drainhole gazing. The ORR may well want to have a poke about, but after the RAIB investigation and report, because there may well be recommendations arising from that, and the RAIB are best placed to look at the way the WCRC safety management system works, or doesn't work.
All of that is a lot of months away yet.

Drainhole gazing? Its an attitude when faced with a problem or task. Concentrating on looking two feet ahead for imaginary smell that arises from the drain holes, (because thats what you expect drain holes to do) rather than the real view of the road ahead.

 

This weeks Railway Herald suggests that WCRC may have brought in external professional help to meet NR's requirements. If true it suggests a change of heart compared to their reaction after the line side fire incident, and hopefully augers well for a reasonable resolution.

But whatever the outcome, I share the reservations of others that the ORR might cast a shadow over things further down the line once their investigations are complete. I just hope that at worst, any actions taken by the ORR are simply punitive in respect of historic issues around the SPAD and the SMS, and that they accept that whatever WCRC are doing/have done is sufficient to avoid the need for any prohibition.

 

It is remarkably difficult for a TOC to loose its Safety Certificate and Operators Licence.
ORR started the procedure against Advenza Freight. After 3 years of process, Advenza went bust before ORR had a chance to finish them off.
No chance of WCR going bust chaps!

 

http://orr.gov.uk/what-and-how-we-r...rcement/enforcement-action-taken/prosecutions gives some indication of the going rate for various misdemeanours. Presumably most of these are negotiated beforehand rather than being litigated extensively.

 

An eminently sensible course of action and one of which NR would approve, because as you suggest it indicates a change of attitude,which at the end of the day we surmise is what NR is after.

 

Two points - firstly, under no doubt pretty constant questioning from industry and other journalists, ORR have confirmed that they have launched an investigation - it is not just superstition.

Also, the RAIB and ORR investigations are very separate and do not rely on each other. The RAIB investigate with the intention of identifying weakness with the aim of learning lessons to prevent re-occurrence. Crucially, evidence they collect cannot be used in prosecutions.

ORR are the regulator and would make any prosecutions felt appropriate. Interviews by them can be conducted under caution. Whilst the RAIB investigate as a result of specific occurrences, and may make quite wide ranging investigations of relevant factors in those incidents, ORR examine whole systems.

ORR do not need to await the RAIB report - indeed, I can think of at least one instance where the RAIB report was not allowed to be published until after the conclusion of a criminal prosecution as a result of the incident in question.

As ORR also regulate Network Rail, I suspect it would be naive to think, there was no discussion on safety issues between the two.

Steven

 

My question is why are tour operators still taking bookings or advertising tours which might not even run

 

Also I can see tour operators suing wcrc for compensation which could put them out of business because the tour operators have staff like chefs on the restaurant cars waiters stewards they have ordered food and drinks for the tour so they could be out of money

 

Are you sure they are? Surely punters would not book with all of the uncertainty or are we saying there is Jo Public who are not aware of the crisis in the mainline arena? I cannot believe for a minute that a tour operator would take their money under the circumstances. Surely this approach would be honest and fair. "Good morning Mr. Jones. Thank you for your wish to buy tickets but because of the WCR dispute, we do not wish to take your money at this time and we refer you to our website for updates".
Wishful thinking? I wonder.

 

I've just visited RTC's website and made a booking - stopped short at the "pay now" bit naturally - but assume it would have taken my money.

 

Mmm, that's not good. I can understand taking a booking, but no monies should be taken until there's greater certainty again of the tour running. It's as if they gambling on an outcome with other people's money !

 

Steam Dreams didn't sue DBS a couple of years back when they were cancelling trips because of lack of crews or resources. The waiters and chefs don't work, they don't get paid.

 

If you delve into RTC's "news" section - a link off of the "information" link - there is mention of trips postponed due to "operational issues/restrictions" but these only go up as far as the 18th. Anything beyond that doesn't get a mention and bookings are still open it would seem.

 

Just visited the Steam Dreams site and managed to get as far as the "pay now" button. Not sure what would have happened had I proceeded. Only mention I can find of the WCRC problems is on the timings page. Neither operator seems to be making the WCRC news a prominent item on their home page.

 

Don't overestimate the availability of information on this 'crisis' to the world outside. I was working at the CVR on the p/way on Wednesday and there were several there who knew nothing of this. So the chances of Joe Public having any idea is slim indeed.

 

If Jo Public saw about this problem they will think that it was only the Hogwarts Express which was affected, and they would never realise that TOC was also involved with other rail tours companies which they want to use.

 

So for the hapless punter who books, what happens when the trip doesn't run as advertised? Any chance of refunds or are they landed with a diesel or an alternative (maybe unsuitable) date?

 

Completely agree with you. There is no other way it can be done while the current situation exists.