The Great Britain VIII

If RTC had "pulled-it" how would they deal with all the people flying in from as far away as Australia? Should they compensate them...pay their air-fare & hotels? There will be a good few-hundred passengers who will have booked travel to and from London and maybe accommodation - should they RTC refund all those expenses too?

If you think they should they should, then I cannot wait to see your railtour company - with the amount of money you would be giving back, you would be bankrupt before you turned a wheel.

I can only imagine that several of the tour promoters are looking very long and hard at their bank balances, the advanced ticket sales and wondering how long they can continue to keep the wolf from the door if they have to refund everyone's tickets.

 

That's what travel insurance is for. If you book and the operator cancels it, claim your expenses back.

 

Sounds like one of those who have put a very great deal in planning to go on this tour.

If I was booked on it I would take some encouragement from the fact that a plan B has already seemingly been worked out and put into operation, (fingers crossed for that!). And that maybe a plan C is being worked on too with the aim of getting some more steam haulage into the tour despite what must be the enormous problems in doing that. Of course I don't know that but I suspect RTC are not just sitting in their offices twiddling their thumbs when they know people like you have put so much into coming here for their tour. Plus all the others too. If RTC are still working to try and improve the steam content I wish them all the very best with at least some more success with that.

 

No,as 5944 has already pointed out,those kind of expenses,in the travel business known as "consequential losses" would be for people to claim under their travel insurance if RTC had cancelled.

You rightly point out the dire position of RTC in this situation, but I note you say nothing about what the customers might be thinking,and you have not answered my question of how you might be feeling if you had booked. As several have already said on this forum,there will be many who do not wish to continue with such a radically different trip to what they booked and paid for. What happens to them and their refunds remains to be seen.

 

We had a similar scenario with PTG last summer when a (modern traction) tour of Sweden was cancelled two days before departure following a hugely disruptive signalbox fire. We were given two options:

1. Be given an InterRail and one of the tour leaders would take us on as much of the itinerary as possible using service trains (the tour was booked to be hauled by a variety of interesting preserved or "freight" locos and was doing a considerable number of freight only lines) - with this option a refund of the "railtour only" price minus the cost of the InterRail was given.

2. Full refund.

I have to confess that, after a bit of soul-searching, we took the second option and went elsewhere in Europe as we already had our own flights booked which were not refundable of course.

If I had booked on GB VIII, I would consider a largely diesel-hauled tour with a suitable reduction in fare but bear in mind that I do like (some) diesels

 

The terms of booking, does not guarantee Steam on all the tour. Your travel insurance company would tell you to get stuffed if you cancelled because of no steam and then tried to claim. So as a pax you are stuffed - don't go and lose all your money, or go and get a discount.

RTC are also stuffed. No tour and there is some expense and no revenue. Run a tour with no steam and there is expense but revenue (reduced maybe) to offset it.

 

But if you paid with a credit card you may well have a claim against the card company on the basis as not supplied as advertised. Doesn't apply to debit cards

Don

 

Same applies, clearly stated in booking terms that steam is not guaranteed, CC will offer the same stance. "As advertised" does not apply, when you tick the box to accept the terms, the terms apply, not the advertising.

 

The point at which the booking is made is critical. If at the time the booking is accepted RTC in this case could still reasonably make the promissory statement they plan to offer steam haulage in the manner described with the proviso of a diesel substitute in emergency that is a fair term. It would be unfair to accept a booking for all steam after such time as it became less than probable
So early bookings will have a weaker claim than the most recent. Ultimately only a county court could decide a claim in the event of an unresolved dispute

 

If you have a good relationship, a very good relationship with an underwriter at your insurance company it is just possible they would write a policy for paying out for a long and expensive tour such as this if steam was substantially reduced and you decided to cancel because of that. However should they consider providing such cover the premium for covering such an unusual risk would be rather large, and could be almost as high as the risk so not worth it. Depending on how they view what happened in the previous GB trips. And unless you are with a specialist insurer it is unlikely you will ever get to speak to an underwriter. But if you had found a friendly underwriter who would cover such a risk and you were prepared to fork out a rather large premium you would have to have taken out the policy before any event that could impact on the provision of steam power had occurred. They usually put themselves in a win win position! As we all know.

I have had cover provided in the past directly from discussions with the underwriter for rather special insurances with the Commercial Union when they were around and there was an underwriter in the local office. Wonderful days. But I had gained a lot of experience over a number of years with very large industrial insurances at the time and knew my way around a bit and at the time knew the language to talk.

I did speak to an underwriter with my current insurer only two days ago! But not about anything serious or expensive. I don't use online "fill in the form and take it or leave it" insurance for some aspects of my life.

 

Luckily I did it last year but a nine day almost non-steam trip would not be looked forward to any more than the disappointment of losing a wonderful holiday. No winners here.

 

Latest info from RTC

The Great Britain VIII - Update

West Coast Railways had a very positive meeting with the O.R.R. yesterday afternoon.The O.R.R.'s primary concern is the operation of a safe railway and they were pleased with the progress made by West Coast Railways in this direction.

West Coast Railways have a meeting with Network Rail at 12.00 noon tomorrow, we understand that they have now completed the work requested by Network Rail and we hope for a positive outcome at this meeting.

Our priority is to run the majority of the tour hauled by steam.

Your tickets will be despatched tomorrow by first class post should we receive the positive outcome that we are expecting, if this is not the case the only option may be to cancel the tour.

The train will leave London Victoria Station, platform 2, at 08.44 on Tuesday.

We are very sorry for the continued uncertainty and hope you understand the impossible position that we are in, which is completely outside of our control.

As you know we operate steam tours all over the world, this situation is far worse than we have experienced in any other country in the world.

On a positive note Network Rail have now recommenced timing the Great Britain VIII tour, as have now received the timings for the first three days.


Kind regards
The Railway Touring Company

 

Positive news all round, though the uncertainty over the GB tour, is still worrying, as there's still a chance it could be canceled last minute.

 

Although looking slightly more positive, these are tight timescales.

 

Has anyone found Day 3 in RTT yet? Just had a look at services through Grange-over-Sands on Thu 30th, but can't see anything.

Surely RTC wouldn't cancel the whole thing, now they've at least got the first 2 days organised? Maybe they haven't managed to agree an alternative TOC for (some part of) days 3-9, or maybe so many passengers have said they're not interested with (mostly) diesel haulage that it's not worth running?

Each Great Britain has had some element of suspense over what will actually run (and I'm not referring to 46100) but this year is turning into quite a cliff-hanger!

 

If it is DRS in charge, I doubt we'll have timings released until the day or even after the train runs. There was a big discussion on a gen group earlier in the year as DRS didn't like people reporting their nuclear flask trains' locations.

IIRC, that also applies to class 1 trains too.

James

 

The present situation looks a little brighter.

Timings are now available for 'Britannia' to transfer from Swanage to Stewarts Lane on Monday, 27th. <BJ>
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/U55363/2015/04/27/advanced

 

Plenty of Pathfinder tour using DRS have had their timings available on RTT several weeks before they have run.

 

Cheers Bill. Timed for 45mph, I see. How on earth do they come up with the load figures, though? "trailing load 1060 tonnes" Anyone would think it was a Mendip ballast train, not a single loco! Must be something to do with stopping distances...