The Silver Jubilee Talisman - 26th September

Announced today by UK Railtours by via their email newsletter. Note the remark regarding the A1 Society being "proud" that Tornado continues to be run by DBS at the bottom of the tour description. Also prices have really been hiked for this one, eyewatering in fact.



http://www.ukrailtours.com/tourshow...urfile=150926_THE_SILVER_JUBILEE_TALISMAN.txt

 

Two really interesting points here. The A1 Steam Locomotive Trust statement is, I think, entirely legitimate, despite the fact that, to some in the enthusiast fraternity there is the possibility that it might appear a touch smug at this moment of disappointment and disaffection for so many with the effects and consequences of the current WCRC situation. UKRT also come through with a strong statement in their newsletter that quite unambiguously dis-associates their operations from problems elsewhere, and who can blame them for that? Overall, I think that this creates exactly the right message to reassure and to build customer confidence in the tour operator, its "supplier", and its customer proposition (i.e. the one that's broader than just an appeal to the enthusiast market).

On the subject of pricing for this trip, to characterise this as "really hiked" and "eye-watering" seems to me to be a little strong, but it does nevertheless expose a further shift in a trend of upward price movements applied to steam charters on the ECML.

On the one hand, I think that this tour's pricing of £119 standard/ £159 first class for 537 rail miles including 349 steam miles does bear favourable comparison with the un-remarked pricing for UKRT's own 2nd June White Rose trip - £99 standard/ £139 first class for 377 rail miles, including 188 steam miles. (I would allow, though that I don't know how much might have been added for the added value of a "Deltic-return-versus-Duff-return" premium incorporated within the overall pricing for the White Rose).

Moreover, the Silver Jubilee Talisman pricing looks even more favourable when looking at SD's pricing for the previously planned 21st May SD charter to Scarborough that would have returned to Kings Cross with SNG, for a price of £115 standard/ £159 first, yielding 460 rail miles including 230 steam miles - well below the Silver Jubilee Talisman offer. So the Silver Jubilee Talisman fares aren't unprecedented and do seem to bear some sensible "bang-for-buck" comparison with what the market has been charging elsewhere for ECML steam charters.

But its when you factor in a comparison with the excellent value for money offered by RTC with its standard York return/ 100% steam itinerary that all this starts to look much more expensive. £85 standard/ £129 first are the representative RTC prices, and this suggests to me that these newly announced fares levels are kissing a 40% standard/ 25% first class premium over the RTC position. And its worth noting that even last autumn's Jubilee Requiem trip to Newcastle only attracted a standard class fare of £95 - and this is directly comparable with the Silver Jubilee Talisman's £119 for mileage and steam content.

All of which begs the question - what would fares look like if RTC, in partnership with WCRC, were not around as key players in the market. And what, indeed, might their own fares look like on the other side of impending NR/ ORR judgements and the cost implications that might go with these? Perhaps this is one for the"ramifications" thread.

 

Many thanks for that interesting, thought provoking post. I agree there's a bit of a nod to the "what goes around comes around" way of thinking in that A1 Society comment. Not entirely sure what I think about it as I don't know enough of the background, but I'm sure it'll attract criticism from some. I should have drawn attention to UKR's statement in their newsletter in my original post. It was only afterwards I realised its significance though I imagine many members here received the email themselves. I don't blame them for setting the record straight so to speak, and the fact they received calls from customers enquiring as to UKR would be effected by the WCR suspension does indicate the average railtour passenger is unaware of the internal detail of tour operations.

On the fare issue, you make a fair point regarding the mileage, and the fact it's an ECML tour. Suspect there may be less standard seats on this tour as well, hence a slightly higher price. Many of UKR's tours fill their First and Dining seats first due to the demographic of their regulars. Suspect this may also explain the different pricing of RTC's equivalent tours. They are more enthusiast based, and presumably sell more std than first / dining seats on many of their tours.

 

Yes Al quite agree. This tour looks like a must for me, though its going to cost me in more ways than one!

Don

 

When I signed up with the A1 trust, it was on the promise that they were once a year running "The Talisman", south, then return, to thank the large local contingent who had helped in a £££ sense as well as volunteering.

At the time that was given by all of the high level management, however that has proven to be unfounded, and while I realise to gain maximum revenue, they want to start from London, I see no reason why the trip cannot be run in reverse shortly after, as the loco is obviously in the York area, after drop off, the deltic is in London, awaiting a return back to York.

However I don't expect sense to come into this, that why I cancelled my DD, and now support a big blue loco on the NYMR.

 

That comment by Pathfinder is a bit over the top. Especially when their TOC is not without blemishes....

 

It's not about being smug at all with regard to saying your operation is operated by DB Schenker - it is merely to instil confidence into the customers booking that their tours with UK Railtours and A1 Trust will go ahead with none of the encumbrances from the current debacle that has affected 99% of ML steam at present.

also you get what you pay for - UKRailtours and A1 trust run top notch tours with high quality operation and catering to boot

 

Hmm....maybe true now but less than 2 years ago Steam Dreams certainly did not get what they paid for. DBS were cancelling Steam Dreams and other tours at minimal notice because they were unable to resource crews. That is why SD switched from DBS to WCRC.

 

I do have some sympathy with your post there. It's not that long ago John Farrow posted quite a damning email about DBS lets not forget after they failed to resource a number of UKR's tours.

 

Apologies Ralph, I've been away a couple of days, but it's probably my fault the thread has drifted somewhat as I did draw attention to the politics angle. Hopefully we'll keep on topic from now on, : )

 

Sorry Ralph. Naughty step again for me.

 

Good evening all,

Not sure if a thread has already been started for this tour next week, so mods if one has please feel free to merge this.

Not sure if anybody else has received there tickets today?

Confirmed/finalised timings seem a little on the ponderous side to say the least...

Outward nearly 2 and a half hours to get to Peterborough...

Return nearly 2 and three quarter hours to get from Newcastle to York...

Hey ho - i'm sure that I'll still enjoy the day but those paths are certainly not taxing, fingers crossed that something alternative can be found on the day but I'll not be holding my breath.

If there are any other forum members on board, myself and my party are in coach J seats 9 and 10 so please feel free to stop and say hello.

Cheers everyone and hope to maybe bump into 1 or 2 of you.

Phil

 

Yes, got my tickets for four of us. It's the even earlier start and even later return that gets me I'm afraid. We are in E all the fives and sixes.

 

Yes agree with that. Its so bad north of York that we may not bother. And I expected so much from this trip. What happened to the special status of Tornado, being able to go longer between water stops etc? As it is we now have an incredibly early start and its timed back so late we risk not getting home. What a waste of £119.

Don

 

Whilst that is true Al, one if the major selling points was a visit to the works in Darlington to see the new build. NR couldn't even put in a Darlington stop on the return! Overall very disappointing to say the least

 

I was considering booking this: now I'm glad I didn't.