Tornado

Apologies SACM, it was JMJR I was referencing.
JMJR, your reply is fair, but you have read my comments as being a little more Anti A1SLT then intended. The enquiry is genuine, not as a prelude to a round of finger pointing and I told you so's (though I enjoy that as much as the next armchair anorak)
I have contributed money and on the odd occaision time and elbow grease going back to 6 or 7 years now In this respect I feel I am just as entitled to comment on how said money has had to be spent just as I am to an interest in seeing her doing well. One is also aware that the trustees probably couldn't give a 4x what I think as long as I and others continue to do so.
. If any one else would like to chuck in a few figures for the cost of a general overhaul that locomotive X had recently to add a little perspective ?

 

Fair enough, I understand where your coming from and I did not intend to make you out as Anti A1ST, nor was I aware you have contributed to it for sometime, in that respect I apologies.

I very much wish for her to succeed as well, and address any prevailing issues Tornado may have, certainly in light of so many other new build projects on their way.
Ultimately I suppose all this was perhaps to be expected in some shape or from, she is somewhat a pioneer in this new build steam field, and it would be foolish to think that the first of such an enterprise wouldn't have some problems along the way. All hopes then that lessons are being learned for both Tornado and all these other new build projects as they progress. They are after all, an integral part of the future well being of our hobby we so adore and wish to see continue being a great success it already has been into the far, far future.

 

Hi,
I've written the iPhone app for The A1 Trust, so far, its just the iPhone version, which can be found on the App Store here:
https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/tornado-60163/id975108352?mt=8

To answer philw2's question...

An Android version will be up next on the list of things to do, then I'll look at doing something for the P2 project... but not quite there yet

Jason

P.S...
V1.02 of the app will be approved by Apple soon which will fix slightly laggy scrolling on the News and Events page - just waiting for them to get to it!

 

Some very interesting analysis here from several contributors. As for costs, everything now is from £30-00 an hour+ - and that's just for labour, whether it's your domestic boiler or, yep, even a locomotive boiler - I can't see that cost getting any cheaper anytime soon. so, if we look at the time/labour component alone for any work, it's gonna hurt your wallet or maintenance fund.

Can't help but agree that 60163 is a work in progress. BillyRepoening has nailed it, what we see now is what happened regularly on the railways when steam was the main motive power and the infrastructure existed to deal with it; e.g., a regular tear-down for the motion and axle boxes of an A4 at Top Shed, "Britannias" throwing rods and slipping wheels on axles during the '50s, etc.. There are so many examples of locos types having regular strip-downs after a particular mileage. Today, of course, there is no bottomless fund or "accountancy trickery" to pay for it.

An interesting example is the class 25 on South African Railways; the trials and tribulations that these "state of the art" locos encountered after they were introduced in the '50s were VERY expensive. Roller bearing failures were rife, and boiler problems led to the fitting of extra cross stays and flexible stays - sound familiar? - the class 25 boiler is very similar in some respects to the boiler on 60163, steel firebox and round top outer-firebox, but quite a bit bigger ( 70 sq. ft grate area!!). If you have steam coursing through your veins, "Camels and Cadillacs" by Phil Girdlestone is a must read. It covers the conception and operation of the class 25 condensers and class 25NC locos in South Africa, a type that comprehensively eclipses most of the machines that ever ran in the UK.

So with 60163 and it's, ahem, expensive servicing costs. This is the reality of running a high-power steam locomotive, built to a mid 20th century British design silhouette ( not with American, French or Czech design advances ) within today's running constraints, it's going to be expensive.

Like "Taliesin", I still find it hard to believe that 60163 actually exists. We are unbelievably lucky that so many are prepared to sacrifice money - and that much more valuable commodity , time - to ensure it's continued operation, questioning the actual costs is really a wasted exercise. It does make me feel a certain empathy for a certain Mr. Smith at Carnforth.....

Cheers

Alan

 

One thing to bear in mind is the shear speed with which all this work has been done (including the boiler going over to Germany) which will have necessitated the use of much paid labour, unlike some other main line loco's where there is a higher volunteer content. I'm sure that the A1 Trust will have considered the cost/time/quality factors very carefully when planning the overhaul, and getting back on the main line ASAP to generate more revenue will have been key. And of course a rapid high quality job will never come cheap.

 

Come and have a look in close detail - tomorrow, Sunday and Monday at Shildon. It will be the slowest you see it moving for a while!

 

It's the android version I need; I've tried wikihowto to see if I can do it but their just not compatible systems AFAIK..

 

I quite agree. The A1 SLT broke completely new ground in building a main line loco from scratch. I guess that with the benefit of hindsight, the organisation may well have chosen to do things a bit differently if they were building the loco now. The bottom line is that we have an A1 which we wouldn't otherwise have had. Some of us, myself included, would never ever have seen one as the A1s all went before we become interested in trains.

Whatever some people think could have been done differently, the A1 group got a great deal right. The LNER/BR(E) is under-represented in preservation and in going for a Peppercorn Pacific, they chose the best gap to fill, as the first new build needed to be something prestigious besides representing a class that was both popular and reliable. The organisaton gained the support of a lot of people with the necessary skills from engineering to fundraising, ignored the doubters and ended up with a magnificent machine. Tornado has provided an excellent template for other new-build groups to follow, even if some have chosen to adopt a different approach to some issues. I've only had one run behind 60163 so far - UKRT's Devon Belle to Exeter out via Honiton and back via Taunton, and what a performance that was! It's good that it will be back in business soon and yes, a big thank you to everyone who gives their time and money to ensure its ongoing operation.

 

The pictures of the finish are stunning. Rembrandt has done another superb job.

I do miss the blue though...!

 

... and add in a new Hitachi Super Express Train maybe??

 

Agreed but it still looks stunning.
http://railwayherald.com/imagingcentre/view/384844/TW
Thanks to Thomas Anderson and Railway Herald for the image. <BJ>

 

Thank god they've kept the lipped chimney!

 

Oh absolutely - and the memories of the apple green livery the first time around are stronger the more I see. Lots of very happy memories chasing her round the country in that first year of service.

 

You see, I prefer the stovepipe for the apple green livery because it's an authentic portrayal of the class. Perhaps one day we'll see a fully authentic portrayal with the stovepipe chimney and a different smokebox door arrangement - high numberplate for example.



I much prefer this format for the apple green. Note the Ivatt Atlantic in GNR livery in the background!

 

Hang authenticity, that's for rivet counters........ its the trusts toy & they can do what they want with it (within given remits of the covenators...)

Any way, we had all that 1st time round, so Apple Green &b lipped chimney does it for me!

 

Well, I am a convenator. I know I'm in a minority - but it's something that perhaps could be done years from now.

The chimney maybe, but not the smokebox door. The "face" of the loco is important to the overall authentic "look" - I understand the reasoning for the brand awareness, mind, that the trust doesn't change it too much. But it's something I can dream about anyway.

 

As I said, "hang authenticity" - who cares = paint job & intricate details are all the same to a blind man!

What matters is, its back together, back in steam & about to rejoin the mainline.

 

Yes, Tornado's boiler is significantly different from those of the original A1s, BUT is it not very similar to loads of boilers built in Germany except for the exact shape and size? Are there crucial differences in its shape that have caused the standard German construction to be not entirely suitable?

 

It would be interesting if Alan Haigh could have a look at the boiler design delivered to the A1 Trust to have it evaluated. Tornado, 3801, someone, somewhere, needs to go back to fill in their knowledge and skills gaps.

 

I'd love to see 60163 in that configuration but wasn't there a reason why they couldn't have the numberplate mounted higher. I think I saw somewhere that said why it hadn't been mounted higher.

But as DD says its better that she's back in steam doing what she was built to do.