GWR Streamlined Castle : 5005 Manorbier Castle

I was thinking the same think

 

The Photography section does seem the obvious place for photographs that are being posted for general interest, rather than in relation to a particular discussion. Personally I don't much mind, but even I am somewhat bemused as to why you choose to put them here. If you can give us a convincing reason you might get less moans in future.

However this particular thread is fine here (IMO) because it concerns a specific instance of streamlining which is an appropriate subject for discussion. And I agree that this instance of streamlining was horrible; much worse than the School, which resembles some American locos of that era.

 

I am using the photo section all the time now apart from these 2 particular threads, which I require some answers

Neil

 

Even the much lauded Señor Porta didn't get everything right.

 

It was, only the Gresley type was anywhere remotely approaching effective.

 

There is a quite a lot about the streamlining in a book I have been reading lately (sorry cannot remember the title and I am not at home to look), I must confess that I have always disliked it but it is now growing on me - very much of its era.

I think a lot of the issue that was ignored (or possibly not understood at the time) that was in the case of the GWR main line the prevailing wind was from the south west so the engines were always facing a cross wind of sorts which has aerodynamic implications (think echelons in cycling).

 

NZGR called these streamlined, though I don't think their heart was in it...



This is what they looked like "under the hood" after the streamlining was removed:

https://flic.kr/p/e6a3Yn

Tom

 

OK, hadn't realised that. That should mean the war is over. Nobody should complain about photos relating to particular topics.

 

you can see where the GWR streamlining came from

 

I've not found anything I've read about the various historical streamlining exercises to be very convincing.
This paper http://pure-oai.bham.ac.uk/ws/files/16022306/Baker_2014a_Aeronautical_Journal.pdf perhaps gives an introduction to the complexities, and its worth reflecting how little of the ouytlined methodology and tools would have been available to engineers in the 1930s.

 

\Other way round. The Porta loco is of 1948 vintage.

 

Don't forget King 6014 as well.
http://www.britishpathe.com/video/streamlined-train-for-gwr-news-in-a-nutshell
http://www.davidheyscollection.com/userimages/00-0-a-ed-wr8-19-chaplin.jpg

 

Given that the GWML headed mostly west/southwest, the crosswind component would have been far less than that on the generally N-S direction of both ECML and WCML so I can't see how that argument holds water.

 

Ooops!! my mistake

 

We now know a lot more about handling scale effects (although they were not at all unaware of them in the 30's) and how to allow for them. Instrumentation has massively improved and of course the number crunching ability available to reduce the results to useful data has seen improvements undreamed of in the 30's.

Of course these days said number-crunching can often do the job without anybody getting their hands dirty. BUT, as certain Formula 1 teams have found out (stares in direction Marussia and Ferrari) there are certain tasks for which the Tunnel is indispensable. And if, unlike Marussia, you have a Tunnel then, as Ferrari found out their cost a few years ago, it needs to be up to the job, in it own right, in terms of instrumentation and in terms of support and operating staff.

Those scoffing at various designs should bear in mind that often just rounding the corners of structures, in order to reduce the turbulence sharp edges can produce, can have major effects on drag. Its why modern medium-speed stock has, despite having flat fronts etc, rounded corners and, on the roads, trucks are treated likewise. In fact just taping 3/4 of a cylinder over a 90 degree corner, whilst it looks stupid, can have a noticeable impact on vehicle fuel consumption. Those attempts that look 'half-hearted' might actually have been quite useful whilst minimising the impact on maintenance that went with 'proper' streamlining.

PS: I am NOT an aerodynamics expert. I know a small amount about it and work for an organisation that used to run several Windtunnels.

 

I think the GWR streamlining just wasn't carried thoroughly enough. Obviously a very different approach to the overall casings adopted by Gresley and Stained but had the copper and brass of the chimney and safety valves been eliminated and the harsh joint where the front end plating joined the running plate been given more attention than something as good as many acclaimed American designs would have been achieved.

I recall reading that the designer/artist responsible for the famous Pennsylvania streamlines thought the GWR design "had possibilities".

 

I suggest that some of the above read 'Grime and Glory' by Adrian Vaughn. Fair play to the GW they wanted overhead live wires up to Taunton.

 

Heart in it or not, I like it.

 

Looks Somewhat better in black than in photographic grey. Picture from owners Mainline Steam.