Royal Duchy 2015

I'll have you know, red-faced at times I may have been, dark faced? NEVER SiR! - An Imposter!

 

Would you believe it took 5 attempts to take that picture...everyone standing in a line and a 6ft4 guy just stood right in front of me...everyone asked him politely to move and he just ignored it...

 

They are known as Planks!

 

Rhymes with....

 

I must correct this
The Train was booked for 9 coaches
L S L WERE not comfortable with such a big load
and asked for it to be reduced to 8 coaches later at the last minute they agreed to 9 however we were not informed
people may have noticed the WCRC brake was empty

We have never asked for 10 over the South Devon Banks
But we need 9 to break even

We have not yet made a decision to operate this series next year and comments like this give me no enthusiasm to do so

 

I may have mentioned this earlier, but my understanding of the 1960s loads, ie 7 cars I think for a class 7, were based on being able to re start from virtually anywhere on the route.

From what we hear about todays main line trains, mentioned again by meltonnorth, such loads would not make it worth running the trains now. I don't now if any special operating arrangements are in force but certainly with unchecked runs the various locos could of course, as they have regularly shown, handle more than allowed back in time. Exactly how many is I guess a matter of judgement re each individual loco and their history of running over steep banks etc.

The Brit looked and sounded lovely over Hemerdon in the various clips. Would be interested to hear from any one timing it how it compared with that astonishing effort by Tangmere, (of all locos!), earlier this year. Or was that last year?

 

O

Omly two locos have taken 10 over the banks - both Class 8's, Duchess of Sutherland and Tornado.

 

I understand the comment about needing 9 cars to break even.

But I'm unsure who LSL are and on behalf of whom you are speaking. It would help me a lot if you could clarify please.

I would add that my British main line steam interest has been focussed on the area of what was the Southern Region of British Railways and the locos they operated with very few exceptions from 1960 to the current day. As one or two here may have noticed.

 

You were given a tough hand of cards to deal. I bet that a majority of members here are heavily sympathizing about what you have had to go through this year.

 

I really hope you do continue with The Duchy's next year. I wouldn't take much notice of the naysayers, many of whom don't travel on the trains. The Duchy's are always way up there in my 'highlights of the year' list. With yesterday's excellent run with the Brit, this year is no exception. We've done all three and have no complaints about the issues Tangmere and No9 had. these things happen. More importantly the passengers really enjoy the days out as both Fowey and Charlestown are excellent off train options. And there should be more engines choices next year with luck.

 

I'm not sure Nigel meant 9 fare paying coaches, I believe he meant 9 in total (including POB). I don't think the Duchy has ever run with more than 9. Next year should be a lot easier with more class 8 power available in the shape of 35018 and 6201 (although does Lizzie fit on St Blazey turntable?). Braunton, 6023 and also 46100 may also be available for this run, i'm afraid 2015 has just had a very bad alignment of poor luck.

 

Correct. 9 includes the POB. We have continued to run it because in my view it is the most exciting trip on the Main Line by steam.

Next year we will look to improve times to shorten the day,
ND

 

WE PROVIDE FREE BUSES TO TAKE OUR CUSTOMERS TO FOWEY AND CHARLESTOWN SO AS NOT TO STRAND PASSENGERS IN PAR

 

I'll say this again, in the hope of some sort of response this time!

It's not just the number of coaches, its the actual load that matters. Rake being used this year has lots of those heavy Commonwealth bogied Mk1s which are 36-37 tons apiece. A Mk1 on B4s is 32-33 tons and a Mk2 32 tons. So 9 coaches of Mk1/2 on B4s weighs about the same as 8 coaches on commonwealths. That's how to make it work.

I went past Carnforth on a Pendo yesterday and there are a heck of a lot of ex-postal vans there, all presumably on B4s or the slightly heavier B5s. Surely some bogie swapping can be done? At least something to think about?

Sean

 

Couldn't agree more. Some really stiff climbs in both directions and opportunities for fast running on other sections. Get's my vote.

 

It would be a crying shame if the Royal Duchy charters were to end. I was at Bristol TM when Britannia pulled into the station on Sunday evening. The faces of the passengers getting off the train told the whole story. They were so excited even after a long day.

I spoke to Ray Churchill and his partner and they were full of praise for the train.

This train has everything that a steam railtour should have, beautiful scenery, steep climbs and fast running. This year has been especially difficult for the industry in one way or another so let's hope that next year will be better. It will be wonderful to see the Royal Duchy passing the Devon seawall and other such beautiful places once again. <BJ>

 

Hey Mr. Just remember who's idea the Bristol Par jobs was originally!

 

Oh that it was so easy Sean. I work off the 1963 WR loads book. But you cannot just consider all up weight. You have to consider the extra friction of extra wheels on the rail, and the drag of an extra coach. 70000/13, 34046, 5029 and Tangmere have all taken 9 successfully, however, the load in the book for an unrebuilt is 252 tons (not tonnes), where as other class 7's are rated at 288t. Now, when trying to work out where an arbitrary figure like 288 comes from, just divide it by 32. Et voilà a load of 9. Whether it is Mk 1's on Commonwealths, or a Mk 2 on B4's, other variables mean it is far too vague a science to consider loads in anything than number of coaches in total.
You are also completely ignoring factors such as adhesion (and that is a massive factor at other times of year), Wind strength and direction. When working things out like this it is a measure of past experience, and consideration of other factors which may change on the day.

 

Agree the load book is the starting point, but other factors come into play. Helpfully, the 1963 WR Engine load book is available on the web:-

http://www.michaelclemensrailways.co.uk/article/western-region-engine-loads-17th/556

Yes I can see the WC was limited to 252 tons up Hemerdon, but didn't that assume a Plympton restart? From Winkworth I understand the run they were used on for SR crews' route knowledge was usually load 7 with a Plympton stop?

My concern was that the focus of the discussion was merely 'counting the carriages'. I was trying to find a way to keep the weight down, reducing the risk of slipping and/or stalling, but maintaining a viable paying load. To me swapping the Commonwealth bogies for B4s is a no brainer as it would save 32 tons on an 8 car rake, making POB + 8 more manageable. The easiest way to do this is surely to form a 'lightweight' rake for the Weymouths and Duchys from stock already on B4s?

I have timed trains for over 30 years and as the publicity officer of the RPS at the time did the logs for the Shap trials that were published in Steam Railway. I live in Bristol and want to do my bit see the Duchys, Weymouths and Torbays continue and thrive.