6233 in LMS red and wider livery debate of locomotives/stock

Agree regarding the Duchess, but I think 6023 certainly looks fine

 

Think 60163 looked OK too, like to see a Blue Bulleid one of theses days also. But a Duchess should be Red... unless its wearing a Bathtub.

 

We have had a blue bulleid 35005 looked good on the mainline and I liked 34027 in crimson.I prefer the duchess in crimson .

 

Sorry Bill got to disagree both totally non authentic, not what railway preservation should be about although I know 34027 was done for a good reason. For anyone who likes this sort of thing there's always Photoshop.

 

But john there is very little on the mainline that is authentic.Compressors and airpipes non authentically named black fives and B1 .45699's livery.I could go on but this is a bit of thread drift.

 

I'm struggling with the idea that, to go on the main line it must have ground-level water fillers, therefore we can paint it pink with blue spots!

 

Indeed, there are compromises that must be made to make mainline work possible, livery isn't really one mind.

 

now that really would upset johnb

 

I reckon blue behind the SVR's LMS set could look quite smart, similar to 828 a few years ago.

 

Nowt wrong wi' pink and blue spots......looks a bit classy

 

It's 2015 so compromises have to be made but that's not a reason to deliberately do it totally wrong. A correctly turned out Bulleid in BR green on a train of Mk1s looks right, I've never heard anyone at the lineside say " ah but did you see the air brake connection below the buffer beam."

Haven't both enthusiasts and owners got the same idea, to recreate a bygone age that those of us of a certain age remember.

 

Even so I can't wait for 6233 go red in mid-spring/early summer 2016. LMS 4-6-2's were red in their prime. right?

 

TSK!!!!! That's the wrong shade of pink and it should have five more blue spots to be authentic!

 

Sorry John, that's the only shade of pink they had at B&Q and I rushed the blue spots, missing the top feed and dome. I know there's one missing from the cylinder cover, and the running plate needs a couple more, but the foreman told me I could finish the job off when she came back on shed. Have to go now, the people from the home have come to take me back

 

I'm just wondering what proportion of the people who will actually see a particular locomotive in the flesh (or steel) will care how precisely or otherwise its paint scheme corresponds to one that it carried at some previous time in its history, versus what proportion will care whether the paint scheme is aesthetically appealing, versus what proportion don't care a monkey's about the colour as long as it pulls a train, whistles and puffs. Of the colours that might reasonably be considered at all appropriate, my personal preference for LMS pacifics is red, but I don't understand the subtleties of the various versions of red and therefore don't care about them. I'd put green as second choice, and blue or black joint last. But that's purely taste. I've no problem with someone else preferring blue.

 

I'm not sure that's really the point, though, is it? Agreed that the majority of visitors don't know Thomas the Tank Engine from a Pendolino, but there are many who do know the subject. Why are we reducing ourselves to the illiterate rather than raising ourselves to the cognoscenti?

The strange thing is, if ever there is a costume drama on TV, say First World War troops departing by train, and said train has a Standard Class 5 at the front, it is condemned as rediculous by people on this and other forums (fora?). "They should do the research!" But where do they research if the people who should know the subject deliberately present their wares incorrectly? This is how history becomes distorted: history isn't what happened, but what people believe, and they believe what they see. And such misrepresentation only makes things more difficult for the historian of the future.

 

There are too many spots on that tender.

To be serious, does anybody know how much it costs to re paint a large locomotive? Surely if the paint job that it's wearing is in good/decent nick, put the money towards the overhaul when the time comes.

 

The cost factor is why it's so infuriating when someone actively selects a completely fictional livery. Galatea looks great in red, but if it had been full on LMS red, she would have looked even better and wouldn't be perpetuating a false version of history.

That's the thing that really puzzles me. It can't be done just to annoy the so called purists - if it is then it remarkably short sighted and dare I say even infantile. The respect for the locomotives' history hasn't been given any thought by putting out these fictional liveries.

Bravo sir. Well said.

On the note of locomotives being used being inappropriate in films - Downton Abbey has of course used the Bluebell Railway and NYMR for their filming at various times. A few years back I noted the NYMR's BR green liveried 4MT lettered "LNER" on the tender with a simple patch. It was totally inaccurate but strangely I appreciated that they'd used the right livery - the Bluebell used a fictitious railway when their engines were used.

My question is - if the 4MT had been potentially correctly liveried for the time period of the film (so, LNER apple green?) would that have been more or less acceptable for filming, given they had tried to portray it more accurately?

On the subject of the Duchess - the green has been excellent. I voiced my displeasure previously at how it was conducted, however on reflection it's been good for the locomotive, railway preservation as a whole, and I feel I was wrong in that regard. May she continue to present the elegant and high standards shown previously of finish and application.

And yes - I'd like to see express passenger blue too...!

 

This is how history gets distorted, if you mean the 4MT tank it's wrong in BR green, they were only ever black, and it's even more wrong with LNER on the tank regardless of livery.

 

As regards Galatea, I am still firmly of the opinion that the reason for her current livery is purely to do with confirming WCRC's corporate livery, whilst they were running 'Hogwarts Castle' for the Harry Potter series, dont you think the sale of the Hall would be more lucrative if it was in WCRC's livery as seen in the films ?
I would bet future liveries will be hisorically correct...