6233 in LMS red and wider livery debate of locomotives/stock

No orange street lights back then...

 

First low pressure sodium vapour lights were introduced in 1956

 

Additionally, and I say this as a self proclaimed signalling geek, would the Duchesses have worked over Midland lines (the Midland Lower Quadrant Semaphores are quite distinctive at Swanwick - indeed all over the MRC) in the 50s. They were pretty much exclusively WCML locos and the signalling in that photo is definitely not what was found on the WCML.

John

 

Agree about running on an ex Midland line would have been unusual but not impossible, diversions took place over the line through Ingleton for example. I have taken a couple of things off the loco, the crown and electrification flashes but in this version left a glaring error that no one has spotted, the yellow line along the platform. In the final printable version this has also gone.

Very difficult to get it all correct and this was on a photo charter where details can be controlled even to the extent of the passengers period dress.

I agree with comment above about the SVR where the atmosphere feels right. I think the Valley along with the Bluebell and KWVR are top in this respect

 

Is it an air pipe under the buffer beam?

 

Warning flash below smoke deflector? The smoke box also has SC under the shed code which was also not carried.

 

Having read all this hoo-hah about "authenticity", I am going to write a strongly worded letter of complaint to the BBMF. Just about every colour scheme the Lancaster has carried since the Flight has had it on charge is incorrect as PA474 never saw squadron service. I cannot emphasise enough just how shocked I am that the Flight can mislead the public so brazenly. Equally the flying gear worn by the crew is nowhere near representative of that worn by wartime crews. The Flight should be ashamed of themselves for carrying out such deception. I trust the Lancaster will be grounded and hidden from public view until these glaring errors are corrected.

 

Well spotted I took them off the boiler and firebox missed the one on the frame. Didn't even think of the SC plate. Shows how difficult it is.

 

That's different Ian, just like renumbering a loco to remember a long lost class member. Paint it pink and there would be something to moan about

 

I take it you didn't approve of Spencer Flack painting his Spitire and Sea Fury in red with blue and white cheat line then.

 

It's his aircraft not mine the motivation behind him doing it defeats me.

 

So does not the same apply to those who own other pieces of vintage transport?

 

Yes it does, and the aircraft should have been correctly done if it is to be presented to the public.

Sorry, but this bit of being able to do whatever you like to your own property just doesn't work. Own a modern house? Want to extend it over the garden? Go ahead and do it without planning permission, the neighbour complains that you are now blocking their light, the council takes legal action to force you to demolish it again. A very old house, with perhaps Grade II listing? Any maintenance and repair you do to it must be in the spirit of the period. Try installing modern double galzing and see what happens.

 

I think we are starting to hit the nail on the head. It is extremely difficult to accurately recreate the past. There will always have to be a concession to the present day, such as warning flashes, modifications made to make operation easier, telegraph wires, clothes people are wearing, things you see in background. I could go on. What we are doing is giving an impression of what things use to be like.

Some will argue otherwise but we need to adapt to some degree. For example, the Vulcan. I have been lucky to see this fly several times but no longer. I know why it is now grounded but imagine if you could never see a black 5 work again, or a Hall or B1 or S15! This is why I can accept some degree of non authenticity, and can understand why some decisions are made.

J

 

I'm sorry but you're talking nonsense. A man bought a couple of fighters to use as his personal toys and occasionally display them to the public. He chose a colour scheme of his liking. I presume you'll now tell me that Hawker Aircraft shouldn't have put their Hurricane on the civilian register and painted in a house scheme complete with civvy registration while it was the company hack. What about the guys who got a Sea Vixen airworthy with support from Red Bull and as part of the deal they painted it on Red Bull colours for a few seasons? I presume in your eyes they should have rejected the offer and kept it grounded. XH558 carried an incorrect colour scheme so I presume that was wrong too. Not that her legion of fans gave a stuff.

 

Now you're talking…



Simon

 

It's their toys so they can do what they want I just can't understand why someone would spend a fortune on a valuable historical machine and then effectively vandalise it. A steam railway is a working museum and as such has certain duties in the information and educational area. The GCR should not be using the "recreat the experience " line in their publicity now. As has been said on here people would take a very dim view if I bought a Georgian house and then covered it in stone cladding.

I must also disagree that a locos history is ongoing, as a working piece of machinery history finishes when it's withdrawn from revenue earning service and it becomes scrap metal, from then of it is an historical artefact to be preserved and conserved as part of the railway story.

 

When did the SC plates come in?

 

If I (as a private individual) buy something I reckon it's mine and I can do what I want with it (providing it's legal) and I'm sorry but it's got nothing to do with anyone else.
Not locomotive scale but say I bought a 1960 VW Beetle, 1.2 engine and then decided to swop the 1.2 VW engine for a 3.6 Porsche engine, it's not authentic but it's mine to do as I please with it.
It's my money.
As for locomotive liveries, as far as I am concerned the loco. owner can paint it any colour he chooses and it would suit me, some colours I favour over others but I can't get worked up about it.

 

For a private individual playing with their own toy, yes. It's a bit more ethically tricky when preserved railways do the same, many of which are constituted as educational charities.

Tom