Where have ex-GWR Locomotives gone in 2016?

Crikey. Looking through the tours up to the end of June 2016, there is hardly an ex GWR locomotive to be seen. There are loads and loads of ex LMR locomotives booked on tours with 46201 most heavily booked, I think. Apart from the Tyseley ex-GWR stud, is it conceivable that we might not even see 6023 and 5029 in 2016? So sad when you look back over the preservation years when these stalwarts were strutting their stuff on the mainline: 4079, 4930, 5051, 5080, 5972, 6000, 6024, 6998, 7029, 7802, and 7819. Those were the days my friends, we thought they'd never end. I think they just have!

 

Perhaps if the GWS would like to overhaul some locos instead of building new ones then a couple of those past stalwarts, plus 5900 and 7808, would be back in action again.

 

It has been reported that Bodmin and Wenford Railway have approached Didcot about a restore and run agreement for 7808Due to increasing passenger numbers they require 2 locomotives capable of hauling 5 coach trains in peak season.

 

That'll be good if they can pull it off.

 

That I look forward to seeing but doubt she will be done to mainline standard unless someone funds it.

 

Is it that surprising when in an era of ever tightening gauge restrictions those which are the most unfriendly in this area are finding themselves sidelined? Especially when the areas where they fit best (e.g. the GWML main line) are seeing such major engineering works and restrictions on pathing?

What's the point of restoring an engine to the main line if you can't run it anywhere?

 

It depends on what you mean by "mainline standard". Surely restoring a loco to anything less than a mechanical standard where it would be fit to run on the mainline (albeit without all of the gubbins required to actually run on Network Rail) is just cutting corners and is probably storing up problems for the future.

 

Whilst in some ways that's an obvious point to make, in reality it doesn't quite hold water. 5051 finished its mainline ticket in 2008 at which point it might have been expected (before its state was appreciated) that 4079 would be finished and ready to make a fairly seamless swap. Little point trying to get two Castles through the works - better to finish the one already started even if a much bigger job than it appeared. Had 4079 taken to the mainline in 2008/09 its possible that 5051 or one of the others would have been through the works as well by now. (No criticism implied of those working on 4079 - its clearly needed a lot of work).

Realistically whilst as enthusiasts we'd love to see 5900, 7808 or 6998 on mainline duties, the economics of what they can haul make them unattractive to the major operators who are more interested in having a loco that can haul 12 so as to keep ticket prices down for the "normals" than having a rare beast on the front for us. Maybe if the Cambrian Coast operation gets restarted they might be considered but until then sadly I can't see much action from the smaller GWR classes on the mainline other than Tyseley's especially if gauging remains an issue.

Possibly the County or 47xx (ironically the new builds) are the best options to add a bit of variety into the GWR offering. I guess however that whilst numerically the GWR locos saved are plentiful, Swindon's standardisation policies mean that the variety of options above say a class 6 are pretty thin compared to say LMS or LNER options which tends to leave us looking mostly at Castles.

 

This statement looks like a classic case of translating a perception into a generalisation that probably overstates the whole picture of gauging constraints with ex-GWR classes. On the one hand, yes, its true that there have been a small number of well-publicised problematical locations - 4930 on the Paignton branch, 5972 in the Keighley area, anything Great Western between Worcester and Hereford. And I think I recall from previous years a problem in taking 4965 to Ely that was solved by the substitution of the Earl.

But quite the reverse of shrinking opportunities to avoid gauging constraints, take a look at the map of 4965's travels in 2015 - its best year for some time for gainful employment on the main line (outside the Shakespeares). Taken together with 5043's roamings far and wide across the network, and you have to agree that the broad geographic coverage of Tyseley-based VT tours alone demonstrates a very different picture of general accessibility to the network (at least away from former South-Eastern routes) with itinerary-busting inhibitions confined to a few specific localised problems

I really think that this contradicts the whole notion of "can't run it anywhere" for ex-GWR classes. And in terms of adaptability to future condition and constraints, its worth reflecting just how much work is going into 6023's main line readiness programme at Didcot to forestall the possibility of future gauging problems as well - with all the attendant (and potentially transferable) knowledge and understanding that goes with it.

 

whats the point in overhauling another hall ? Theres plenty been running on preserved lines (or scratching round looking for mainline work) for the past few years.
I'd rather see something that was scrapped recreated.

It's not as if anything GWS overhauled in the past is lying neglected... everything is stored nicely undercover.. 5900 looks as good as the last day it ran... and how many years ago was that ?

 

Much as I hope to see both of those in action on the main line, I'm afraid neither will be any more suitable than a Hall.

The 47xx will run initially with a no. 1 boiler, the same as that of a Hall, and will be subject to the same 60 mph limit (assuming no changes from the present speed limits according to wheel size). Its only advantage will be that the extra pair of driving wheels will make it less likely to slip in difficult conditions.

The Counties originally had boilers rated at 280 psi, subsequently reduced to 250. The slightly larger boiler implies slightly more steam available, but discussion in the County of Glamorgan thread seems to have confirmed that the ex-8f boiler can only work at 225 psi. With the same size cylinders and slightly larger wheels than a Hall, that means slightly lower TE. So the ability to pull trains will be very little different from that of a Hall.

 

Give it another year and we'll surely be enjoying the prospects of 6024, 7029, 5029 and hopefully 6023 will be strutting its stuff this year.

 

I'm not sure Gauging is that big a reason, More Didcot taking less and less of a mainline role, Severn Valley Ditto, with less and less work for Loco's class 5 or less (Suspect this is why 4936's outings are few and far between), that means returns are unfavourable for anything other than Castles & Kings in many circumstances, out of those two classes, 5043 carries the flag solo currently.

Other regions have similar shortages at times too, 34067 seems to be the only Southern loco out there currently for example, and UK Steam looked short on the LMS front a few years back, certainly there's 3 Castles and 2 Kings due in the short term, so that 5 added to the scene, 6 if 5043 is turned around rapidly, add to this 9466, 7752 and 9600, though their outing are likely to be few.

Of the others, 7027 would be useful if restored but clearly is some years away even if started tomorrow, 5051 extremely unlikely while 4079 is operational and even afterwards is likely to be some years , 5080 is presumably bottom of the Tyseley queue with the Jubilee next after 7029 is done, that leaves 4073 and 6000 which probably have about as much chance of steaming again as the original Rocket.

B1's and Standard 5's will always be advantageous in the class 5 field due to 75MPH capability, with the Black Fives mopping up most other work in Scotland and on secondary routes.

Ironically it appears a lot of ex LMS metals are more gauge friendly to GWR types now than plenty of ex GWR locations, 4965 being no stranger to Crewe or the North Wales Coast and has been to Carlisle in the past, hopefully the gradual extending of electrification and W10 gauge work will help ease some restrictions in certain places, hopefully the GWML in a couple of years will be easier to gauge, though pathing will be another matter.

 

I thinks the chances for getting 5029 back are strong later for this year. Possibly for some Cathedrals Express that have been announced but as always targets aren't always met.

 

That's fair comment when it comes to the "experience" market - they aren't going to offer much over a Hall so won't be much better in terms of the 10+ coach loadings needed to make most of those tours viable.

What I'm wondering is whether in time, the disillusionment some feel with current steam tour offerings might lead to someone (and I can see VT offering this given their expertise) offering tours that are more expensive in ticket prices, but that work on lower loadings such that some rare beasts come out to haul (thereby justifying a higher ticket price). I wouldn't expect any of the GWS fleet to be doing that many tours - obviously some contribution from tour profits would be welcome but the locos are at Didcot for the purpose of having them there rather than as working assets that have to pay their way as maybe Tangmere might be considered at WCRC.

 

Didcot doesn't really need very many locos in working order at one time for running up and down there. They have built some of the gubbins for main line operation in portable form so that more than one of their locos can use it. Surely they intend at least the County, the Saint/Lady, the Grange and the 47xx to go main line, as well as 6023 and maybe others.

 

Although the Grange doesn't actually belong to Didcot ?

 

Indeed it doesn't. I stand corrected.

 

Undoubtedly they are intended to go mainline but sparingly was what I was trying to say.

6023 or any of the others in part earn their keep by being part of a comprehensive collection at Didcot that people pay to go and see whether they are running or not. Mainline running would be an addition to the "museum" experience so may well be limited to 3 or 4 times per year. That contrasts with something like Tangmere which doesn't really serve any purpose for its owners if its not out on a trip - no-one pays to go and see it in the yard so if its not running its not earning. That is why its out sometimes twice in a week. Similarly whilst WCRC have the scale of operations that can support their locos on frequent trips, its going to take time for Didcot to build mainline support capacity to cope with more than a few trips per year. What that then raises is the possibility that a rare trip behind 2999 on one of its 3 runs this year might attract a higher ticket price enabling a lower loading - pretty speculative at present but possible?

 

It is perfectly possible for owners of locos with 6ft driving wheels to apply for a RGS derogation to raise the maximum permitted speed from 60mph to 75mph. That none have chosen to do so to date is probably due to the current owners not seeing the maximum speed as an important issue. Or perhaps they wish to avoid the extra wear and tear and the additional maintenance costs associated with running at higher speeds.

David