42424 - New Build Fowler Tank

Really?! Thats intresting! What one?

 

Just checked the reference: 42394. Photo by Bob Essery, taken on 08/07/64. It was shedded at Swansea between 1947 and was still there in 1960. It is recorded as being transferred to Western Region along with 2305 and 2307 in 1953. A visit to Swindon looks to have occurred sometime after '57, but why it was in Leeds in 1964?

David

 

Any chance of the image of it in green being put up here? Bugger me this really put the cat amongst the pigeons.

 

Certainy has! And I know what's coming next!

 

You can run, but you can't hide from Swindon...! All locomotives assimilated, any origin, any era.

 

Just viewed a photo of 42394 when it was allocated to 6C Birkenhead 1962-64, before it went to 55A Holbeck. It was in lined black livery.

 

It was definitely black when at Birkenhead & I last saw it at Mirfield (in 1966 I Think) & it was black then.

Bob.

 

Copyright prevents me from posting a copy of the (B&W) photo, but the reference is LMS Locomotive Profiles #3, The Parallel Boiler 2-6-4 Tank Engines by David Hunt, Bob Essery and Fred James. The caption to the picture indicates that on the original print the shade is shown 'unmistakably' as is the absence of any lining. Further research indicates that it was withdrawn from Holbeck 30/06/66 and broken up by Drapers in Hull. The last one (2410) was withdrawn 09/66.

David

 

It seems to me that there is a majority in favour of the original Fowler design and I fully agree with that, the pure Fowler design looks much nicer than the later hybrid cab. The cab cutouts were modified so there are actually two sizes of opening in the cab sides. I don't think a draughty cab is relevant in heritage locomotives, the original cab is more in keeping with the historical progression of the 2-6-4 T. There is also the question of inside or outside steam pipes, I am sure they were changed for good reasons and should probably be used.
It's a great choice of locomotive though, such a successful and good looking machine a few of which almost made it to the end of steam.

Edward

 

I agree, steam pipes should be used....

Keith

 

Given the essential objective of reproducing the first in the long series of 2-6-4 tank designs, surely every detail (cab, steam pipes, whatever) should be the earliest version except where there is any overwhelming reason otherwise. Lady of Legend will have internal steam pipes, so why not the Fowler tank?

 

I too support the idea that the earlier more common design would be better.

I suggest that there is the possibility of using inside steam pipes but manufacturing cosmetic outside steam pipes for when running in later liveries. I wouldn't bother too much with other things that would have changed over the lifetimes such as the type of safety valves, as it's less visually obvious.

A class 4 tank would provide ideal motive power for the Llangollen Railway. It's the right size and will spend half its life travelling backwards.

As an aside unfortunately the SVR's LMS Period III set suffers from having several carriages that are clearly of post-war design (with "porthole" toilet windows), which includes all of the available brakes. Altuogh some of these were built by the LMS just before nationalisation, most were built by BR. I think the set would look better in blood and custard, but anyway...

A Clan is a terrible choice for a new build loco, apparently the design was chosen because "we didn't have one and we wanted to make up the set", and this isn't a very good reason at all. Despite having a 20 year head-start on other groups they've made very little progress, and I expect them to continue to make very slow progress and divert resources away from more viable projects. Again, going with tank engines a GCR pacific Class A8 would have been much more suitable for the GCR, but apparently a loco to a proven bad design that's too large and entirely historically irrelevant is preferred by GCR management.

The Thompson L1 would also be a good design for a heritage line, perhaps the NYMR. The problems the L1s had I understand were due to wear from high speed running with small wheels, whereas limited to 25mph there ought to be no problems. It's a fairly sraightforward design, parallel boiler, two cylinders, like the Fowler 2-6-4T.

 

I don't think any project diverts resources away from anywhere, I think they create new resources and stimulate fresh interest.

I'd like to se the Clan finished so that it can prove itself in a similar way that 71000 did.

As regards this topic. a Fowler Tank is an obvious gap as are the 2p 4-4-0 and the 3F 0-6-0. Useful locos all, let's hope they are re-created one day

 

Tony, there are countless coaches in Blood and custard coaches either Mark 1s or some Collets on the SDR the Thompson bar car on the Llangollen.
The privilege of having the only 9/10 car set of LMS period 3 coaches is one we savor. We have 11 Mark 1s in blood and custard so keeping the LMS set in one uniform livery makes a welcome change and also represent a livery that no other railway can carry.

 

Don't you mean an A5? A8s were an NER design.

 

Agreed

 

SRPS are currently in the final stages of the overhaul of two LMS period threes, which will also be in the LMS livery.

 

Then there's the NRM's LMS Period 1 Third Open 7828 the LMSCA have just about finished at Rowsley in early LMS livery, just crests and varnishing to finish.

Dave

 

Well to be pedantic the A8s were a Gresley rebuild of Raven's H1

 

Just come across this thread on Fowler tanks and the different cabs and the comment about 42394 painted green in 1964. This picture I took on 17th July 1965 at Holbeck of 42394 in unlined BLACK livery. I think this was not only the highest numbered loco with this type of cab but also the last in service with the original type of cab.