Flying Scotsman

There were four A3s allocated to the Canal shed (60068/79/93/95). Trough deflectors were fitted to the A3 class pacifics between October 1960 and November 1962. The reason why the Canal ones were not fitted with them was that the four had been dispatched to the scrap-yard between 9/61 and 8/62. As for the Waverley route - don't forget that St Margaret allocated A3s were fitted with the deflectors. Interesting subject. I thought 60103 looked superb with them on Saturday.

 

I know it wouldnt be completly accurate but one day would it be nice to see her in BR Express Blue. I think that would not look so out of place with the Smoke Deflectors. Compared with the Apple Green and Smoke Deflector combination.

 

Well for those who want to see a single chimney A3 in Apple green, you know what you have to do, talk to that nice Mr Coulls and start a fund to have a blastpipe and chimney ready for 5 years time, when she will be due for a intermediate, if you want it, you will have to pay for it, its as simple as that , in the meanwhile lets look forward to seeing 60103 in BR loco Green and hope the bearing problem isnt a show stopper for the kings cross run.
Actually, now , given the exposure the engine is getting, may be a good time to launch a fund to get the blast pipe and chimney castings funded so Adrian, how about it?

 

I like it with the double chimney and it will sure steam better like that.

 

Surely reinstating a signle chimney would decrease loco performance. This would be OK on a perserved line but on the main line would result in fewer coaches being hauled. Which would decrease revenue on each main line tour. Surely the best for all parties is to keep a double chimney and maximise revenue profits.

 

2749/60095 Flamingo was Kylchap fitted 2/59 and was withdrawn 4/61, 2567/60068 Sir Visto was Kylchap fitted 4/59 and was withdrawn 8/63, 2578/60079 Bayardo was Kylchap fitted 1/60 and withdrawn 9/61, 2747/60093 Coronach was Kylchap fitted 12/58 and withdrawn 4/62.

1961 saw the arrival of 2500/60035 Windsor Lad in the April and 2556/60057 Ormonde. Bayardo was in storage (is this why some people think of three?) and with the St. Pancras-Edinburgh services to be dieselised the chance of any heavy repairs to the existing allocation was remote to the point of non existence. Sir Visto was ex-works in March '61. without deflectors.

I am not sure of the LMR input on the Canal A3 allocation but I have read that if they were unwilling to have work done then it didn't get done.

So, there you are, a few numbers and dates, but were defectors necessary for working the Waverley? Probably not.

With respect to a single chimney. No doubt the original layout could be improved. Improved enough to match the Double Kylchap? Probably not - though it would be a rewarding exercise to examine options that would fit within the original external dimensions.

 

But isn't that following the line of thinking which justified running at elevated boiler pressure, with larger bore cylinders to maximise power, to enable hauling heavier trains, to increase the number of carriages pulled, to increase revenue...

...and a line of thinking which rather got criticised for departing from how the loco was originally and the philosophy of accepting it for what it is, then running it within those capabilities?

 

My understanding (and I confess, technical stuff is not my strong point!), is that the principal advantage of the double chimney was greater fuel economy rather than greater power.

So yes, the double chimney is preferable from a performance point of view, but by no means essential. Remember, she broke the London - Cardiff steam speed record, crossed North America and Australia under her own power, and broke the world steam non-stop record, all with a single chimney. She would still be a very capable engine!

 

It didn't, it ran over the Carnforth - Hellifield - Preston - Carnforth circuit for it's loaded test run. Saturday was it's first passenger hauled service albeit 2 weeks later than planned.

 

And if the NRM wishes eventually to tell a larger part of her story than just the last few years, a single chimney will be a must. Where's the collecting tin?

 

Who's Adrian?

 

Sorry but it would be equally inaccurate and doesn't represent the history of either this particular locomotive or the A3s in general. Single chimney no deflectors would represent a typical A3 either in, Blue or LNER Apple Green but not FS which was an A1/A10 until 1947 and didn't get left hand drive until 1954. The current Green and double chimney portrays it as the final developement of the Gresley non streamlined Pacifics which I think we should all be happy with.

 

Normally I have a preference for some kind of demonstrable historical accuracy, but I think for FS above all other locos, the history, and historical form, is being constantly written rather than frozen at some arbitrary point in time.

Given that, in my view, apple green, no deflectors and single chimney is the canonical form, and which side it is driven from, well, I can take it or leave it!

Besides, I don't suppose there is any chance of going back to a coal rail tender! What a beauty she was then ...



Tom

 

Not a chance!
Lots of us will never be happy if we have to stick with one of (if not the) best looking locos ever built in it's least attractive condition (entirely subjective, but genuinely held opinion) all on the altar of spurious "authenticity". See my post about a thousand posts ago, plus posts ad nauseum by various people on lots of slightly tedious threads.
If we had 6 preserved A1/A3/A10 locos, then sticking to the precise livery/condition history of the individual loco would be defensible.
As we have only one, it represents the whole class, whose history did not start in the 1950s.
Obviously no one is suggesting de-rebuilding (or whatever the 35011 guys call it) 4472/60103, but a future single chimney/no ear muffs/nicer colour combination would be entirely justified as lots of other A3s wore those liveries, and in the very sad absence of any other examples, FS represents them too.
Besides, it will look better and sell more toys/merchandise/railtours and help NRM recover the money spent. Hornby could do with the boost too...

 

i have not the slightest doubt that a modern multiple jet blastpipe will fill adequately the original single chimney and give excellent results.

externally this would have no objections.

see in a few month's time the results on GWR King 6023!

cheers,
julian

 

whoops, sorry Mr Coulls sir.

 

I think you misunderstood me, nothing wrong with a single chimney FS representing an A3 in any previous livery, but blue with double chimney and deflectors no.

 

What !!! look im on my hands an knees being flogged by a lady wearing an apple green dress as it is , what more can i do ?

 

Whilst chanting 'Gresley was Right'?