£175k to restore a £30k coach

Whilst not wishing to discuss the troubles with the WSRA here (there are 360+ pages elsewhere to discuss that) has anyone heard of so much been spent on one MK1 - see this months Steam Rly. Can anyone shed more light on what the typical costs would be as I am at a loss to such costs. My gut reaction would the costs to be less than half the above - over to the experts. . . (my preservation years had been spent in the loco dept, although that didn't prevent me popping my nose into the carriage shed and saw some quite substantial rebuilds)

 

This has been discussed at length, but my guess would be that they haven't actually spent £175k, but merely allocated it to that project instead of its true purpose - perhaps legal fees? Only wild speculation. As for actual costa, it really depends on what you're doing. All I know is it costs around £4-600 to paint a Mk1 coach.

 

Must have hired a consultant to 'manage' the process!

 

There is plenty of speculation at the other place - what I'm trying to get my head round is for a fairly major rebuild of a MK1 what would be the 'typical' cost (and not just a re-paint). . . .

 

It really depends on whether you are paying for labour or not and thorough the rebuild is.

My area is with wood so I can't really comment. However I can imagine those costs exceeding the market value of the carriage but not to the level of £175k.

Sawdust.

 

I believe that £30k is a realistic figure for a Mk1 refurb, if you have to do the crash pillars and you start off with a coach that's in one piece. The biggest sum I have previously heard mentioned was £60k

 

Does the amount include an allowance for the value of voluntary labour?
Any work on the wheelsets such as new tyres etc?

 

I've heard that Commercial rates are in the region of £80k - £100k. I don't think that would include any work to the bogies and wheelsets.

 

Hello,
I once was told that a group were charged 57 hrs at £25.00 ph for a simple welding job.
So not so surprising with colourful accounting.


Nick

 

To try and put 'costs' into perspective. Up until a year or so ago, regarding Commonwealth Bogies, with 'stuck' Pedestal Liners, we were sending them off, two at time, to be done Commercially, which, with Transport costs, worked out at circa £5,000 for the pair.

We have since taken this work 'in house' which means that with volunteer labour, that cost has reduced to something like £5 per wheel. i.e. A few grinding discs and a few inches of weld. However, associated with that are Capital costs which include jacks and an 'A' frame hoist, together with slings, which all have to be inspected on a Yearly basis.

However one looks at it. It is still a considerable saving.

 

Without going to much down the "WSRA problems" I think all the work on this coach will be paid labour with most likely "restoration" doing the work. Currently we don't know how much body work had to be done on this coach to push up the cost to get it running again.

 

I understand now (see post on the WSRA thread) that they initially obtained two commercial quotes for the job of £60k & £65k and yet they spent more than £100k over even these estimates doing it 'in house'. I have seen enough nasties when you open up a MK1 but this overspend of £100k is well OTT.

 

Agreed, a 150% overspend is pretty shocking. One other factor to ask about is whether the work required was properly understood (and specced). It may be that the quotes were fair for what was thought to be needed, and the overrun due to what was then found.

 

For £175k assuming you're using own labour you wouldnt be far off building the entire bodyshell.

 

I assume that's a materials only figure.

Last year I put in a price to repaint the sides & ends of a coach that required a full bare-metal strip down & arrived at a total of 165 hours. That included signwriting (60hrs) and two coats of varnish (10hrs inc. prep.)

At £10/hr that gives a total of c£2,000 inc. materials. There could be be a mark-up of anything up to 100% on that depending on the situation.

As to other costs...
Approx. £30k to get a set of 4 axles re-tyred & turned to P1.
Interior re-upholstery comes in at around £10k excluding fitting the seats back in, & a bespoke run of moquette will set you back a further £10k - but you do get 300 metres for that!

However without a full schedule of works, it's nigh-on impossible to guesstimate the costs for the example under discussion.

Pete S.

 

43289 was reported as costing its private owner £100k to overhaul.
http://www.cs.vintagecarriagestrust.org/se/CarriageInfo.asp?Ref=1952
Yes, it's a suburban and has a lot of doors, so not quite a 'normal' case. The owner seems well happy with the result, so I guess the cost was justified.
People-wagons are an expensive business, if done properly.
The specific coach this thread is about, I have no knowledge of.

 

Yes it was just materials, and of course there's little signwriting on a Mk1, although we do paint the lines with masking tape, rather than use a tape as the lining.

 

suspect that this job may have been done as an apprentice training project, which would probably inflate the man-hours as well (new to the job so slow) as adding the cost of the trainers and perhaps higher than usual wastage. Plus, quite possibly, a big share of the building's overheads. It's easy to rack up justifiable osts if you want or neeed to.

I think people tend to underestimate the costs of restoring a Mk 1, though, especially where paid staff are involved.

 

I don't know depends on spec it has been done to. I have heard that to restore a Mk1 to mainline standard can be between 100-200k depending on the coach.

 

Well

I would hope following this mornings news, that an in deaph look into what was spent on where wlil now be possible, and lessons learnt,and measures put in place that ensures all costs are up front and transparent from now on.