The Midday Scot 19th March 2016

I remember when B R allowed steam back on the main line in the 1970s, one of the conditions were that there must be two fireman if the run was over 60miles.

 

Fish rots from the head though?

 

We were told specifically that the crew had a Trainee Fireman on whilst we were talking with them. Bodes well for the future and shows some commitment from DBC.

 

Trains are not fish... neither are companies. Quite often those at the top know very little about what goes on at the coal face...

 

OK

 

...exactly. Where those at the top understand the meaning of 'vicarious liability.'

 

Well those at the bottom certainly won't!

 

Werent 'ee one o them Roman Fellers...

 

I'm very late posting this, good news about WCRC.


The Mid-Day Scot 19 March 2016 – 46233 Duchess of Sutherland hauling 10+POB

Mrs W, Oswald Jnr. and I arrived at Preston station a few minutes before the “big girl” steamed majestically into platform 4. We were in coach H, regrettably the ninth back from the loco. We left RT and eased our way out of Preston, and before long we were soon bowling along the WCML in the mid 60s; all that was required for a relatively easy schedule. I had hoped that we may take water at Barton loop and so have worked up to full speed before passing Carnforth, but we were booked for a water stop at Carnforth where presumably WCRC provided access to the tanker – thanks to them; it would have been all too easy for them to have “locked up and gone home” and I suspect some contributors to this forum would have liked that to have happened. With the benefit of hindsight, I doubt if speeding past Carnforth would have made that much difference to the outcome of the climb to Shap; poor coal is poor coal.

Pjhliners has already made an excellent report of the northbound journey and suffice it to say my GPS data agrees very closely with his. We left Carnforth 1½L and Grayrigg was passed only 2L but recovery was very laboured with black smoke drifting past the windows and speed increasing only to the mid-fifties; it didn’t look good for Shap and so it proved. I’ve been up Shap more slowly (Galatea and Scots Guardsman), but it’s a testament to the skill of the crew that they managed some recovery well into the climb. On our descent to Carlisle speed was held to our permitted maximum, brakes were frequently applied around 73/4 mph preventing any over speed. This technique contrasts with WCRC drivers who typically let the speed reach 77/8 and then brake to say 73/4. I have made many trips with WCRC but only this one with DBC, so I don’t know if this is typical of a company ethos, the presence of a TI or just an individual driving technique. (This is merely an observation and should not be taken as an implied criticism of any party). Arrival in Carlisle was 6L.

We stretched our legs and returned to Carlisle station for the scheduled departure (11.37), which came and went. We were then told that there had been a problem with coaling and watering and that the planned departure was now 12.10. It looked as though we might skip our planned pathing stop at Quintinshill, so nothing to worry about yet, at least until DBS loco 67.018 Keith Heller appeared alongside us on the middle road! However all was well and we set off for Scotland at 12.27, 50L.

We passed Quintishill loop at over 60mph and were now running only 16L. We were up to 75 at Wamphray and seemingly ready to give it a good go at Beattock. Speed at Greskine was 33 and remained above 30 on the upper part of the bank (save for 2 consecutive intervals of 0.1m at 29.7 and 29.6 speed then recovered to 30 before the loco was eased into the loop and made a slow approach before stopping at the waiting tanker. The sound of the exhaust had been electrifying. The climb had been very, very good especially considering the problems on Shap. I made it 2s under 61m start to stop. In the ninth coach, where the steam heating doesn’t reach, I was still some distance from the summit board.

The scheduled stop at the summit had obviously affected what we might have expected as a start to pass time, so in the words of Jim Bowen, “Let’s see what we could’ve done”. From my GPS data the easing occurred after 48.63m which had taken 57m 26s, had we continued at only 30mph to the summit (another 1.17m) this would have taken another 2m 20s, giving an estimated time for stop to pass of 59m 46s. Had there not been a booked stop, could or would the crew have run even faster – we’ll never know.

Cobbinshaw came and went and our long descent into Edinburgh included a 15m section where we averaged 71.5mph with a max of 76. We arrived in Edinburgh (home of British Transport Police?) 1½ L.

A stroll up to Edinburgh Castle in the spring sunshine (I dropped some time on the climb), then back down to the station for a game of “find the train”. Departure was RT and we were given an example of what a 67 could do. Cobbinshaw 73, Beattock 75, Shap 71, Grayrigg 75. We were 15E at Carstairs E Jn (driver’s tea break?) but left 6L. There was a maximum of 100.6 just south of Milnthorpe and all looked set for a RT arrival at Preston until we encountered a bit of traffic and arrived 4L.

We all know the problems that there have been, so many thanks to everyone involved in organizing the trip and for the professionalism shown in running it and adapting to, and overcoming the problems encountered.

It was, as John Motson might have said, a trip of two halves where a poor first half performance was rescued by the introduction of [some] Andy Cole.

 

Better get rid of this before the ORR spot it...

 

I'm sure that they have got better things to do than read my twaddle, or at least they should have. But on a more serious note any claims I make couldn't be used as evidence as my GPS is not part of a Measurement Assurance System and its measurement uncertainty is not traceable to a National or International standard. So we might only have been going at 96.6 (or we could have been doing 105), I don't know for certain and therefore no-one else does! At the very worst it might prompt someone to look at the train data. Anyone know the "allowable" error for speedometers on locos?

 

Usually +/- 2%

 

Thanks, lower than I would have guessed - shows what I know!

 

Which relies on the measurement uncertainty of the calibration process for both the reference device and speedometer under test being very small indeed.

 

Sorry, you've lost me on this one - was there a vehicle in the train that isn't passed for 100mph running? Or is there a restriction at that location?

 

Apologies. I think class8mikado was making a tongue in cheek comment. As far as I'm aware there was nothing to prevent the train running at 100mph at this location. My poorly made point was that whatever we claim to be the speed must be subject to some unquantified uncertainty, what the GPS shows as 100 with for example an uncertainty of 2% could be anything between 98 and 102. Sorry for the confusion.

 

So, the location may be different, the means of measurement may, in the eyes of some, have advanced, but fundamentally what we have here is a virtual re-run of the kind of debate that City of Truro's claims to a new world record in May 1904 became ensnared in. I'm sure that Charles Rous-Marten must be looking down from somewhere above on all of this with a big smile. 112 years may have elapsed, but, as they say, "Plus ca change, plus c'est la meme chose"!!

 

Well, somewhere between 110 and 114 years, anyway ...

Tom

 

Indeed. The Railway Performance Society (RPS) magazine Milepost has published numerous logs demonstrating what C J Allen used to call 'spirited running'. With modern traction the run could simply be referred to by the year with exact date and train withheld. So deltics at 125 mph, hsts nearing 140 and even dc Wessex units up to 117 mph (one of my logs) could be published.

For preserved steam the very best runs in the 60 mph era will have to wait a while yet as some runs are too readily identifiable...

That was then. We now have generally higher speed limits but an expectation to stick to them rigudly. We have on train monitoring digital signalling records and real time trains. So speeds of 80 mph or over are a thing of the past, whatever your stopwatch or gps might say.