Bristol Dramway (reopening?)

the horse is the only real similarity

 

I would have thought this scheme has a much better chance of succeeding if built as a horse tramway. Apart from anything else, capital costs will be far lower and there will be a lot less nimby-ism - and there would be far less of a clash with other local heritage lines.

 

Not to mention that the council already has a nearby farm at Grimsbury, another short amble away, which potentially could provide motive power stabling facilities.

 

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Peter-Lawson/e/B00JDBFMOG

 

Interesting proposition. If built as a 2 foot gauge steam railway that would do several things, in my opinion
1. Costs significant - locos, coaching, minimum of 35ib rail, Transport & Works order needed
2. Becomes a direct challenge to the Avon Valley Railway - as to visitors and maybe taking the workforce - so desperately needed at Bitton
2. The two foot proposition is something of nothing - it's not a recreation of the (D)tramway, it's only rail link would be its in a trackbed of same. The only loco operated narrow gauge in the area was the 2 foot line with a Lister at Frys, Blagdon Waterworks with the Baguley and the stone mines around Bath.

Whereas a recreation with horse haulage, to the original gauge takes on a different dimension -
1. It's so different to steam hauled trains on the AVR it could be complimentary (think joint ticketing)
2. It would be a recreation of what was there so there's a wider historical story to tell about its role, industry it served
3. Operated as a tramway, rather than a railway, legislatively speaking it's less onerous (although don't underestimate what's needed however).
4. Could be incrementally developed - build replica Dramway vehicles, lay a little track, as demonstration line, horse rather than a loco, easier to operate (theoretically), then carry passengers.
5. Aside from Douglas, it would be so different to anything in UK - with appropriate risk assessments and control measures you could have passengers in open chauldron wagons - behind a horse for haulage - now that is different

Traction and Rolling Stock Advertiser or Steve Thomasons website has narrow gauge equipment for sale - that will also give a feel on costs too.

Hope the above is of some use to Mikie from a professional rail worker of 32 years and AVR volunteer of 34 years!

 

Have any of the people advocating the use of horse haulage any idea of what is involved in the care of horses or the cost thereof?

PH

 

Cheaper to buy, no need for restoration or machine tools to maintain them, almost certainly cheaper to run, self replicating and there's a farm nearby, apparently And probably just as many folk keen to volunteer to work with them and far less nimby complaints about them. I find it very hard to believe that they'd be dear than a steam loco to acquire and run. But then I'm not so blinkered that I think only the IoWSR has a workable business model.

 

Horses are not cheap to run, I should know as my partner owns one, but they are not as expensive to run as a steam loco and I know a bit about that as well

 

Who said anything about the IOWSR? I wasn't even thinking of any parallel. However I can spot "wouldn't it be nice" sentimentality at the proverbial 1000 paces.

Horse care is a 52 week a year, seven days a week, commitment. Their owners cannot just turn their engines off, throw a switch or drop their fires to suit their own personal convenience. Talking of convenience, a great deal of shovelling away "residue" is one of the daily tasks. One stage worse than emptying ash pans.

I did wonder, on another thread, if volunteer labour would be a solution to the Douglas horse tramway situation. However I was only too aware that I was straying a bit close to the invincible conviction of the "wouldn't it be nice(r)" that someone else will do all the hard work.

PH

 

.....but the equestrian field rivals heritage steam in terms of the sentimentality of its active participants and if someone was determined to push this scheme though they could do a lot worse than broaden the support base by going for the horse-drawn option, quite apart from the fact that it would be a real rarity and quite a pleasant experience. I don't think that there would be any problem finding supporters willing to clear the spent fuel, and unlike ash it would have the advantage of being saleable!

 

The Great Western canal in Devon uses horses to pull its tourist barges, maybe they have some idea of equine costings.
One thing that puzzles me is the fact that The Dramway in part is a walkway and South Glos. Council seem to heavily promote walking as a healthy pastime. That being the case why should they choose to encourage a mode which is sedentary. An earlier post mentions the absence of NIMBY'S where steam railways are concerned. Walkers might not be that enthusiastic either.

 

Oddly enough I have known of a NIMBY who objected to the smell emitted from a stable's manure heap a fair distance from his house. Between said house and manure heap lay rather a busy road!

PH

 

Only if you don't like shovelling horse droppings. Horse owners/lovers would rather do that than dispose of a steam loco any day.
I'm sure heavy horse owners in the area would be worth contacting to see if loaning their steeds to a tramway would interest them.

 

You're not wrong there.

 

That's possible but I'm sometimes puzzled as to why horse lovers would want to subject their animals to the at times arduous life of a draught horse. I once read an account of a doctor who loved horses so became the first motorist in his area. The de Dion was not apt to catch chills whilst waiting outside a patients house.

PH

 

Draught horses were bred for heavy work but the heavy horses of today aren't worked anywhere near as hard as their predecessors. Apart from the care the owners take of their steeds, animal welfare laws would make sure they were not ill treated.

 

I can imagine the local cycling community might not be very supportive either.

 

I'd help, simply for selfish reasons in that is easier for me to get to then any other narrow gauge railway round here.

That said, a lot of the other points on here are relevant and shouldn't be ignored.

 

My general feeling us that there are lots of railways needing volunteers and money, so why start a new one unless:
- the location is near a large pool of volunteers who can't easily get somewhere else
- ditto passengers
- there is something unique to preserve or recreate
- you have some source of funding which will not be accessible to any other railway.
Otherwise it smacks a bit of wanting to be a big fish in a little pond.
I would ask the two or three nearest railways what they think...

 

I know several people who are violently allergic to horses and wouldn't travel on a horse drawn tramway. I know no one who is actually physically allergic to steam railways...