If you register, you can do a lot more. And become an active part of our growing community. You'll have access to hidden forums, and enjoy the ability of replying and starting conversations.

6023

Тема в разделе 'Steam Traction', создана пользователем Eightpot, 4 окт 2011.

  1. 6024KEI

    6024KEI Member

    Дата регистрации:
    21 апр 2006
    Сообщения:
    861
    Симпатии:
    475
    Адрес:
    Bath
    There's a video on the 6023 Facebook group of some test runs carried out last Friday (15th) - even light engine its not creeping about quietly!
     
  2. Robbo

    Robbo Member

    Дата регистрации:
    8 сен 2005
    Сообщения:
    541
    Симпатии:
    44
    Пол:
    Мужской
  3. mike1522

    mike1522 Long Time Member Friend

    Дата регистрации:
    9 окт 2010
    Сообщения:
    2.001
    Симпатии:
    237
    Адрес:
    Fort Worth, Texas
  4. Penricecastle

    Penricecastle Member

    Дата регистрации:
    23 июл 2007
    Сообщения:
    299
    Симпатии:
    143
    This is great news. 6023 sounds great, really sharp exhaust beats in the video. I never saw or heard a double-chimney County, but I've read that they made a distinctive loud "stamping" exhaust sound. I wonder if the sound the King is now making is similar? It seems that congratulations to Jos Koopmans are in order. It will be fascinating to hear more results when the loco is really tested with a load. If this new design of blastpipe is a great success, it will make a really interesting comparison to the double-chimney 6024, maybe 6023 will be even better? I wonder if 6201 might benefit from a similar blastpipe? Fascinating times ahead!
     
    Roger Inwood и S.A.C. Martin нравится это.
  5. JJG Koopmans

    JJG Koopmans Member

    Дата регистрации:
    12 ноя 2014
    Сообщения:
    382
    Симпатии:
    474
    Пол:
    Мужской
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    For those interested in an explanation, it is all about exploiting the possibilities of the chimney. When I analyzed the Rugby data for my PhD thesis I found that a chimney length to diameter ratio of 2 was the value below which the front-end performance started to deteriorate. Momentum transfer within the chimney needs a certain path length. Since the original King chimney had a low L/D value Ell improved to 1.8 and from there to 2.6 with his double chimneys. The shortening of the present chimney had the effect of diminishing the L/D ratio from 1.8 to 1.55 resulting in the absence of draft, very annoying but a valid scientific result: chimneys can be too short.
    Of course double chimneys can each be doubled again and the resulting four are given the “Dutch treat”, they share the single chimney and their boundaries are fluid. As a consequence each jet uses ¼ of the chimney volume and the L/D’ ratio now doubles from 1.55 to 3.1.
    The orifices are located on the axis of each of the four “chimneys” which are defined by the inscribed circles of both choke and exit and their distance from the choke is the 6 orifice diameters proposed by Ell. As you can see it is all an extension of earlier research results but with fluid dynamics theory in mind. As such the King’s front-end is now a “proof of principles” involved.
    It is a pleasant 350£ fix for a 700.000£ “problem”.
    Kind regards
    Jos Koopmans
     
    oddsocks, CH 19, W.Williams и 3 другим нравится это.
  6. S.A.C. Martin

    S.A.C. Martin Part of the furniture

    Дата регистрации:
    31 авг 2010
    Сообщения:
    5.615
    Симпатии:
    9.418
    Пол:
    Мужской
    Род занятий:
    Asset Engineer (Signalling), MNLPS Treasurer
    Адрес:
    London
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    That is fascinating! So can this principle be applied to virtually any single chimney locomotive in theory?

    Well done sir on your work, having listened to the video it is truly spectacular.
     
  7. Spamcan81

    Spamcan81 Nat Pres stalwart

    Дата регистрации:
    25 авг 2007
    Сообщения:
    35.831
    Симпатии:
    22.271
    Род занятий:
    Training moles
    Адрес:
    The back of beyond
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    So is it still a single blast pipe exhausting through a single chimney but with different dimensions to the original?
     
  8. JJG Koopmans

    JJG Koopmans Member

    Дата регистрации:
    12 ноя 2014
    Сообщения:
    382
    Симпатии:
    474
    Пол:
    Мужской
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    Oh no! See the picture on: http://www.6023.co.uk/news/news.htm
    Regard it as 4 chimneys, specially packaged!
    Kind regards
    Jos Koopmans
     
  9. Spamcan81

    Spamcan81 Nat Pres stalwart

    Дата регистрации:
    25 авг 2007
    Сообщения:
    35.831
    Симпатии:
    22.271
    Род занятий:
    Training moles
    Адрес:
    The back of beyond
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    Thanks for the link. Explains why it sounds quite different from when I heard it last.
     
  10. Muzza

    Muzza New Member

    Дата регистрации:
    16 фев 2006
    Сообщения:
    180
    Симпатии:
    185
    Пол:
    Мужской
    Адрес:
    Mareeba, Qld, Australia
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    Could the same concept be applied to, say a single chimney A3......?


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
     
  11. W.Williams

    W.Williams Well-Known Member

    Дата регистрации:
    20 дек 2015
    Сообщения:
    1.650
    Симпатии:
    1.559
    Род занятий:
    Mechanical Engineer
    Адрес:
    Aberdeenshire
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    Interesting stuff indeed.

    But what is the Diameter of the orifice's? They look at a first glance pretty slim...

    Also,personally I would be tempted to double-lock those bolts as a minimum.

    Also Also, why square? Is this something to do with the L/D? Volume requirement?

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: 20 апр 2016
  12. JJG Koopmans

    JJG Koopmans Member

    Дата регистрации:
    12 ноя 2014
    Сообщения:
    382
    Симпатии:
    474
    Пол:
    Мужской
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    Yes, but if you are looking for a special case, a double Kylchap would be superior!
     
  13. Jimc

    Jimc Part of the furniture

    Дата регистрации:
    8 сен 2005
    Сообщения:
    4.117
    Симпатии:
    4.821
    Род занятий:
    Once computers, now part time writer I suppose.
    Адрес:
    SE England
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    What, you mean take concepts first used abroad, first implemented in the UK on a GWR locomotive, and then use them to upgrade an LNER one? I'm sure that could never happen...
     
    GWR4707, andrewshimmin и Jamessquared нравится это.
  14. JJG Koopmans

    JJG Koopmans Member

    Дата регистрации:
    12 ноя 2014
    Сообщения:
    382
    Симпатии:
    474
    Пол:
    Мужской
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    Each is 3 inches, for a combined total equivalent of 6 inches, larger than anything before.
     
  15. Spamcan81

    Spamcan81 Nat Pres stalwart

    Дата регистрации:
    25 авг 2007
    Сообщения:
    35.831
    Симпатии:
    22.271
    Род занятий:
    Training moles
    Адрес:
    The back of beyond
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    Out of interest, which GWR loco(s) got the double Klychap treatment?
     
    andalfi1 нравится это.
  16. W.Williams

    W.Williams Well-Known Member

    Дата регистрации:
    20 дек 2015
    Сообщения:
    1.650
    Симпатии:
    1.559
    Род занятий:
    Mechanical Engineer
    Адрес:
    Aberdeenshire
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    6" per cylinder...??
     
  17. fergusmacg

    fergusmacg Resident of Nat Pres

    Дата регистрации:
    17 авг 2008
    Сообщения:
    6.778
    Симпатии:
    4.148
    Род занятий:
    Design Engineer
    Адрес:
    Cumbria
    I can't see any reason why not, then they could get rid of those horrible elephants ears, and that drab green could go too!!!

    As a bit of thread drift has Jos done any such work on the humble 'Austerity' tank AKA J94. Having driven & fired both standard and Giesel variants, the improvements with the later are remarkable, but having studied the graphs etc in Wardles book the Giesel is not the 'perfect' device that the inventor claimed. Is there a simple upgrade available and has anyone used this without the need to change the std chimney (I know about the Gas Producer locos).
     
  18. JJG Koopmans

    JJG Koopmans Member

    Дата регистрации:
    12 ноя 2014
    Сообщения:
    382
    Симпатии:
    474
    Пол:
    Мужской
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    No, 4*pi/4*3*3 equals pi/4*6*6 for total area.
     
  19. JJG Koopmans

    JJG Koopmans Member

    Дата регистрации:
    12 ноя 2014
    Сообщения:
    382
    Симпатии:
    474
    Пол:
    Мужской
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    Please note that the Giesl Wardale discussed was a special large one for SAR. Imho Giesl was not so good in his calculations and like the UK there are single applications elsewhere. It is quite probable that the Austerity version was allright and it would be difficult to surpass its performance with the standard chimney. In the end one needs an identical exit area to the Giesl.
     
  20. W.Williams

    W.Williams Well-Known Member

    Дата регистрации:
    20 дек 2015
    Сообщения:
    1.650
    Симпатии:
    1.559
    Род занятий:
    Mechanical Engineer
    Адрес:
    Aberdeenshire
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    I dont follow this...

    Each pipe pipe is 3" dia. There are 4 of them. I get an orifice area much larger than 6" for total orifice area.

    We are talking about orifice area right?
     

Поделиться этой страницей