Non-working replicas?

I cant see locos being scrapped. I remember a general feeling at about the time 45337 was rescued from Barry in 1983 that possibly about half the locos left there at that time would be which didn't happen. On new builds I think the ones where there a large pre existing components, like the various GWR ones and others which are making substantial progress (Patriot, Brighton Atlantic, 3MT 2-6-2T etc)will succeed, not sure about some of the more embryonic ones

 

There were similar fears expressed a few years ago by the NTEC (traction engines) about what would happen to the machines when the generation of road steam men died out. In practice the Club has Never been stronger, taken over by the next generation. If the new build craze inspires younger people to get involved then it's all to the good. The vital thing is to preserve and pass on the skills needed to carry on.

 

When funding dries up, when space becomes even tighter and the will to restore more difficult projects is lost. It surely can't be long before some of the less likely ex Barry basket cases get weighed in. Plus, look at diesel preservation-been a few locos ran in preservation then scrapped a decade or two later.

 

When funding dries up - again this does not mean a loco has to be scrapped

When space becomes even tighter - space only becomes tighter if more and more items are added to a railway/centre. More and more railways are now restricting their acquisitions to a one in/one out policy. Therefore space is unlikely to become tighter unless the railway is addicted to acquiring things!

The will to restore more difficult projects is lost - well that could happen at any time couldn't it? I would've thought that in future many projects will become younger people's 71000 'mission impossible' projects.

It surely can't be long before some of the less likely ex Barry basket cases get weighed in - that would depend on the owner, but if I owned an ex-Barry loco and had little hope of restoring it myself, I would look to sell it for restoration elsewhere. Recent sales to Mr Hosking, the WSR and others show that there are buyers out there.

Plus, look at diesel preservation-been a few locos ran in preservation then scrapped a decade or two later - diesel preservation is generally agreed to be a different kettle of fish. Mum, dad and wee Jimmy tend not to visit heritage railways to see diesel locos so therefore the net worth of a diesel to a HR is less than a steam loco. There was also a clamour to buy diesels when they became available from BR et al without any thought of how they would be maintained, duplication on the same line, finance and technical expertise to repair etc.

Let's look at the cup half full instead of half empty....


Keith

 

I can remember hearing that - at Barry - in 1970!

 

We have seen some preserved steam engines scrapped in our lifetimes already - including an almost complete Stanier 8F for the benefit (or lack thereof) of heritage era projects. This is not a new thing.

However I can't see new builds being scrapped at any point in the future given the amount of effort to build them in the first place!

 

I think if were completely honest we have a large number of options.

1. We will have newbuilds that will never be finished due to the groups running them being unable to get the funding or have the skills to do so. We will also have groups doing 2nd and probably 3rd locos who knows maybe more.

2. We will have restoration projects that will never be finished by their current owners because... See above. And also we will have loco groups finish one loco and move onto the next restoration project. The more complicated issue with restoration is that someone/s own them. It has proved in preservation already that you might have the will and the money to restore said loco but the owner may just say "it's mine bu**er off". This is where the newbuild groups have an advantage as they can just get on with it from scratch.

3. Railways will inevitably run out of space and you won't be able to fit anything else there so your fantasy shed with a rake of vintage coaches and loco can't be based there (off the top of my head just take Llangollen. On its current track from Llan to Corwen I can't think of a location where you could build on if xx person said I want a space for xx stock? Maybe the carriage sidings?)

4. Other heritage railways will have plenty of space to expand and put additional stock etc and are currently in what people call " second league railways" (IE league table style). These might be good times if the money can be raised for these lines but they will end up with the basket case locos and have to spend a lot of money.

Going back to the locos people don't think will ever steam or will be scrapped I have to agree. Right now I can think of GWR 2-8-0s that no one seems to want to buy or restore and might end up being split for parts and technically scrapped

 

Depends, I fear, on whether you define "slowly rotting away in a headshunt" to be "Static exhibit".

There's quite a list of not quite scrapped locomotives, what with boilerless 28xx frames in a quiet corner at Buckfastleigh, the "death of a thousand cuts" Crab, and all the rest of it.

 

Which flags up the importance of undercover storage if you are going to go forward rather than fight a losing battle against the weather.

And to be fair, I can think of three railways just in central southern or south eastern England that have built major storage infrastructure in the last few years, which suggests that that is an issue that some at least are taking seriously. More would always be nice, but the general trend is in the right direction. Hopefully it is a trend that accelerates.

Tom

 

I don't imagine that new builds would be scrapped-at least, those completed. I think they'd be likely to push out genuine vintage engines, as has been said not necessecarily chopped up but dumped outside and passed over in favour of building a new toy.
A non working replica, on the other hand, would be likely to go pretty quickly. Obviously people can do what they like with their money, but I'd much rather put it towards something that exists and has history than building another object that needs care and attention. Even better, put the money into coaching stock.

 

I know this was probably a throw away line, but Chinnor "move(d) up from industrial motive power" about a decade ago. Mid Norfolk are more modern image anyway but I'm pretty sure even they don't use industrials these days.

What Chinnor doesn't have are its own steam locomotives. However, what they've spent money on is a new Restoration & Education Centre where they can work on their own carriages under cover and accommodate the one-in-one-out loco hire arrangement that they seem to have built up with the South Devon. It's been a while since steam on the C&PRR hasn't been GW (and the last time it wasn't I think it was LNER...).

Maybe this is the third way - Chinnor have spent their money on providing the facilities to be responsible carers for other railways' engines rather than on restoring their own, or new builds. Might just be a pretty canny move, that.

 

Interesting point but on that basis what happens if the SDR gets motive power issues and other lines get tight? Would that end up with the C&PRR steam less?

From what I understand the MNR doesn't have any of its own steam because they don't have much in the way of sheds etc. This is due to change when they build the shed at Dereham and there is the Austerity that's being overhauled at Yaxham that could be based at the railway. Obviously the MNR has a good relationship with Dennis H so uses his Pannier when in service.

 

2700 is probably worse than 35029!

 

There are quite a number of railways that operate with no steam locos or industrial steam that is unsuitable for longer runs, so provided that we are prepared to accept a degree of redistribution of unrestored locos we could see more returning of them returning to action. Most probably, too, we'll see a change in pattern of ownership with fewer in private hands and more being owned by societies.