East Kent and EPB preservation

But does the EPB have this same facility?

 

Yes. End coaches of EMUs allways had drophead couplers. It was only from the CEP onwards that fixed head couplers were used within the set.

Whilst now living inthe Midlands I was born and raised in South London with Catford Bridge and Catford being our local stations and I actually memember the EPBs being introduced

Found a picture


https://www.flickr.com/photos/35437908@N04/3284158653

 

I can just about remember seeing EPB stock (I presume) still in service in the late 80s; and I recall noticing that within the set they didn't have buckeyes - they had a rather more permanent-looking coupling which looked rather like a centre buffer with no head, just a shank connecting the two carriages. I would only have been young at the time, but I remember being intrigued. The view of the coupling was very clear, due to the lack of gangways. But that of course is irrelevant to what would be able to haul them.

 

Being a grizzly old git I remember the Southerns suburban stock too well. All suburban stock had within the unit a single buffer with a three link chain below. This was seen on the 3 and 4Sub units which came before the EPB stock.. This single buffer and coupling was quite sufficient for a EMU as each motor coach only had one coach to move. The formation of the units being motor coach, trailer,trailer.motor coach. That little haulage forces were involved was demonstrated when two EPB were miscoupled at Orpington. No one noticed the buckeyes had not made and the electrics and brakes coupled. The two units made it all the way to Charring Cross before it was noticed. The control gear was so well matched the varying gap between the units never disturbed the brake or electric connections

 

I remember the fun and games when a pair of 121's started away together(not!)

 

Or even earlier! "Buckeye" is the British name for the American "knuckle" coupling, universal across the pond, along with air brakes, since 1893. They came over here with Pullman cars around the turn of the century and were adopted by Gresley, the then newly appointed C&W Superintendent of the GNR. Bullied, Gresley's pupil, later took them with him to the SR. Incidentally, the name Buckeye is not generally recognised in America in relation to couplers, it is simply the name of the Buckeye Corporation, one of several US manufacturers of knuckle couplers.

@threelinkdave is correct; in spite of the SR's adoption of drop-head Buckeye couplers on mainline coaches and the outer ends of EMU sets, they were not fitted within sets until the introduction of true BR Mk.1 based EMUs, i.e CEP onwards and then only the fixed-head type, Mk.1 EMUs built for other regions, such as 302s, 307s, etc.being similarly equipped. We have a pair of 302 driving trailers at Mangapps, normally used as a 2-car set, but we wanted the ability to use one of them as a single car. We simply obtained a "drop" buckeye" which we substituted for a fixed one and fitted a pair of ex DMU buffers and, hey presto, we have the flexibility of a single driving trailer whenever needed.

 

Agree with most of above bar Bulleid taking the buckeye to the southern. Maunsell, who proceded Bulleid, used the buckeye on much of his stock. circa 1923/24 buckeyes were used within sets but not at the brake ends on the ex SECR continental stock. The Thannet stock which followed were screw coupled. A decision was made in 1924 to adopt the buckeye and from 1925, starting with the 59ft stock are so fitted (David Gould - Maunsells SR Steam Carriage Stock - Oakwood Press)

 

I'm sure you're right- I'd assumed it was Bullied because of his LNER background, which just goes to show that you shouldn't assume anything!

Mind you, I wonder how much direct involvement either Maunsell or Bullied had in C&W matters: a late friend who worked in the SR C&W Dept. reckoned that most of that responsibility lay with Lionel Lynes, who had a remarkably long career as effective C&W chief (Technical Assistant to the CME, C&W) for the SE&CR, SR and BR(S). He wrote a very interesting book on the subject too, "Railway Carriages & Wagons, Theories and Practices" (Ian Allan, 1959).

 

Flaman put the often asked query who really did design such and such loco. How much input did the CME have in day to day design. I suspect that overall concepts were the responsibility of the CME with detail work done by the likes of Lionel Lynes.

During my apprenticeship, my 4 weeks in the drawing office, I designed a colliery cage and a set of heavy duty doors for a loco shed. I very much doubt they were attribuyrd to me

 

Does anybody know where the units will be going as they have to leave buy Friday as that's when the lease ends? Also reading on there Facebook page and website the 2EPB and 68001 could leave purely on the groups long term future at the East Kent Railway.

 

They are on the move, we were at EKR last Friday and followed a low loader out of Shepherdswell. I will leave it up to the owning group to state where they have all gone.

 

The 4-Ceps TC and TRSB will be based on the Epping Ongar Railway with MLV 68001 and eventually the driving cars. MLV 68002, 08 and 09 is currently unknown as well as the 2-EPB.

 

The centre CEP cars have moved to the Epping Ongar along with MLV 68001. The centre CEP cars buffet is now painted both sides and the other is partially in green undercoat and SWT livery.

68008 is at Southall
68009 is also at Southall but this is heavily stripped and in poor condition
68002 is at Southall, pretty much restored but hasn't been out since its visit to Ramsgate last year
EPB 5759 i think is still at shepherdswell at the moment.

The ekr, from my understanding did not get a good deal off the epbpg, they never paid the eklr any rent and once they sold their 09 the eklr were left with no compatible locomotive, nor could they shunt the stock around on their site.

There was no emu day last year either because the 09 had been sold by the epbpg and the east kent light railway didn't have any air braked locos.

Hopefully this separation will be good for both the East Kent Railway and the EPB Group - both have very different ideas of what they want to achieve.