7027 Thornbury Castle

Originally, yes. The Std 8 firebox design was later changed (1932 on) to provide wider water spaces. It seems odd that this change doesn't seem to have been made in the new 4700 boilers built in the 1950s, but maybe it was precluded by the larger diameter barrel. I don't have data for such subtleties.

 

As we're discussing PW's locomotives, does anyone know what's happening with regard to 6634? The last time I saw it, it was under a tarpaulin next to Bridgnorth MPD, still without a boiler. I can't recall whether it was still there last time I visited Bridgnorth.

 

I always feel very sad at the idea of scrapping or cannibalising any mainline locomotive that has managed to survive, in whatever form, for 50 years or more since they were due to be scrapped. Like many other people, I wish that there had been more survivors from the LNER and its pre-grouping companies, but we are where we are. I think we are very lucky that so many have escaped the cutter's torch, thanks mainly to Woodham's, and I can never find it in myself to be dismissive of a locomotive because it's "just another Bulleid", or one of a class which is already well represented, like the Castles.

Most steam locomotives were not iconic but did a good job of work, usually for several decades. Every class had its faults because they were built during a period before the sophisticated modeling tools we have today, when engineering development owed a lot to evolution, trial and error.

Part of the attraction of steam for me, apart from seeing locomotives in action, is the history of all the people who designed, built, cleaned, fired, drove and repaired them. Each surviving locomotive has its own history, much of which we will never know, but which I would still like to see preserved.

Thornbury Castle has survived for half a century since it was due to be melted down. I hope the owner continues to ask a very high price if this prevents it being cut up to make something else. This locomotive may never be rebuilt, but if it is kept intact its identity remains and there is at least a chance that one day it might steam again.

I, too, would like to see a Star in action, though not quite as much as I would like to see a Gresley K3. Modern technology is making it possible to recreate what was unthinkable a few years ago. It's mainly just a question of money and one day the balance of economics may make our dreams possible (whoever would have thought we would see a new P2!). In the meantime, please don't destroy what we have left, just find a shed somewhere to keep it dry!

 

It's still knocking around at Bridgnorth with no further progress made. I understand it was planned for it to take the boiler from the Barry 41xx (4110?) but progress at LNWR on this is minimal to say the least. The last update from the SVR was that they were seeking legal advice in light of the considerable work done by the railway on 6634's bottom end.

 

Boiler not from 4110 as this one has been sold the the WSR PLC, so it could be from 4121 which is partly stripped down, http://www.tyseleylocoworks.co.uk/tlw/images/4121_tys_bw.jpg as the boiler/firebox from 4115 which parts have been used on 4708 is most likely to be used on a County Tank.

 

6634 was planned to receive 4115 a number of years ago, but for whatever reason this has not happened.
The 2221 idea has been dropped hasn't it? I was led to believe they were only going to do 2 out of the Three Counties project (1014 and the 38xx).

 

Which boiler will go on the County 4-4-0? That's the next newbuild to go live.

 

I am sorry to say but the cynical part of me suspects that 7027 will continue to stand in the open at Peak Rail for many years to come, yet form the basis of a press release/piece in Steam Railway every 2-3 years that keeps the owner in the public domain and provides an opportunity for him to state once again how much he has done for preservation and creating opportunities for youngsters to train, stopping only when PR get sick of all the stock being stored with little work and she moves on again.

I really hope that this isn't the case and it is only based upon what I have read on here and in magazines so fingers crossed I am just being a misery!

 

Sorry, got my 7's and 8's the wrong way round so to summarise its not beyond the realms of possibility for a castle boiler( if one were available) to be fitted to the new night owl and it would be closer in size/potential to the later 47xx boilers... which is fine if there is a mainline career for said loco, otherwise for trundling round at 25mph it may as well have a no 1 boiler.
Thanks all, im in the yes you can have too many castles camp even though they are a damn fine Loco.

 

5227. Which is a bit of a shame when you think all Didcot is missing is a 2-8-0T. But then again there are others in existence, whereas there are no other 38XX.

 

Apart from the diameters (which might have helped with the flanging blocks) the no 7 had nothing in common with the no 6 which had a short tapered middle ring in the form of a true cone.

Regarding the suggestion of converting TC to a Star the front section of the frames is of a different design, some people may not worry about such detail, there again someone suggested the front end might be strained due to the missing bogie anyway.

 

On your bike with that last idea!

 

Thornbury Castle is ideal for someone with a lot of money to get a reliable locomotive for not a lot of outlay and work though in comparison to a one off like Scotsman.

Think about it: all the hard work has already been done in preservation for a castle class. Spares for parts, toolings, experience of working on them - all available at a number of locations. New tenders built, boilers completely rebuilt, bottom ends done and sometimes parts outright replaced. Wheels cast etc - all the hard work has already been done, you'd be paying someone else to do the same job again effectively.

So if what you wanted was a locomotive to restore and an original GWR design, but as a restored locomotive, and not a new build, Thornbury Castle's a pretty good bet, despite the high asking price.

Can you think of another class with the following and support? The Bulleid society maybe? There's certainly nowhere the like compared to the shared experiences across a number of GWR railways, centres and engineering locations.

It just takes the right person to come along to make something of it.

 

Probably a 57xx but I see where you're coming from. I can't see that making an enormous amount of difference though really, still needs pots of cash to do it.

 

Bulleids apart, there aren't many Express locos left to restore.

 

Since we don't apparently have enough work to keep all the restored castles in action (or even in the overhaul queue) what on earth would 7027 do?
Two very fine locos - Defiant and Drsllywyn - are essentially now eclipsed by their own stablemates (Clun/EoME and Pendennis) and seem to have a future only as static exhibits.
Castles are very fine machines indeed, but restoring 7027 would not be a good use of Mr Waterman's money. The Super D was a better focus: unique loco of both a railway and a type which are rare in preservation, but had a vital role in British railway history.

 

Well if hes not gonna restore 7027 or any of his other locos why doesnt he offer them to people who will

 

I have to say this point resonates with me and it's a very fair point indeed. It's why I am more bothered about seeing the J15, J21, J27, Q6 and 7, B12/3, etc etc, in steam than getting into another argument about why we apparently need Green Arrow in steam more.

The latter isn't entirely unique and has a design lineage from the working A3 we have and the under restoration A4s we have; the others are all unique in very different ways, and dare I say had more pivotal roles in their working lives despite the glamour associated with the mixed traffic V2s.

So I take your point entirely sir. However if I may; there is a clear difference between need and desire. If someone desired a locomotive to restore privately and wanted one with history, and it was for the mainline, there aren't many available and it's becoming increasingly a game of thrones with the locomotive groups being created (Icons of steam have a plethora of locomotives, Carnforth have a veritable working fleet, Tysley is another and quite a few railways are building mainline connections and will have one or more mainline registered locomotives to run).

So in short, if that's what you want, you are severely limited in your choices.

 

Not forgetting 5029. This being the only air braked castle.
As for 7027, is it currently in any worse state than 5043 was before restoration started?