Fife Circle - Flying Scotsman - 15/05/16

Link no longer active, and as far as I can see there are no replacement times in the system. So was it a provisional schedule, or is this a "security" measure?

 

Don't know BUT the Tweedbank times have also disappeared; fortunately I printed them off hence I hope the charter is still running as I have booked days away at some considerable cost (both financial and domestic) to get a specific photograph that I have had in mind for over 30 years and which I never thought I would be able to take.

 

What is the departure time from Waverley please?

 

Network Rail has now confirmed that it will no longer be issuing timings for Flying Scotsman workings on the main line in order to reduce trespass problems.

 

Yeah, That'll work !

 

And here's me thinking the runs were for the benefit of the paying public.
It's like it used to be in the 80s with BR not publishing times for steam runs. If you had friends in the right places then you got the info, if not you just went out early and sat it out until something came by.
If it was one of the regular runs like a CME or a Marylebone - Stratford then you soon worked out the pattern of things.

 

Unfortunately privatisation and the "legal influence" has changed things since the halcyon days of the 1980s leading to the current situation that Network Rail's publication of steam train times could be seen as "encouragement to trespass" hence the decision to ameliorate that legal challenge by not publishing them in the first place.

Another consequence of the rising numbers of the "Internet Idiots" methinks who are so used to pressing the "Restart" button to resuscitate "dead" characters that they don't understand real life whereby "Once you're dead - you're DEAD !!"

 

Given the "public" seem to think nothing of trespassing and causing chaos whenever the Scotsman appears NRs decision is a very sensible one.

Rather than being critical of NR it would be more helpful if enthusiasts actually got behind NRs position in the sense of telling the public how their stupidness is ruining things for others.

Or is it a case that too many enthusiast are just as guilty of trespass as the 'public' and thus they cannot bring themselves to acknowledge the problem exsists.

 

It's got far more to do with NR not wanting to have its staff pick up the flesh of a deceased trespasser or the TOCs having their drivers suffering all sorts of personal torment as a result of a fatality / near miss than any 'legal' factors.

The financial impact of all the delays caused to other TOCs by charters (90% of which has to be paid out by NR thanks to the 'cap' all charter operations benifit from - and which most enthusiasts conveniently forget about when NR bashing) is also important.

 

Like the grandfather that promised to take his 4 year old grandson to watch FS steam past just a few miles from where he lives and I can't give him any times.

 

While its understandably frustrating for you, I would suggest you make sure your grandson knows that the reason for this decision is entirely due to the moronic adults who swarmed all over the ECML (and other NR) just to see it- show him the various videos if it helps his aprecation of just how badly behaved adults can be.

I'm afraid in a toss up between a disappointed 4 year old and a traumatised train driver / trackwork picking up body parts - the 4 year old has to be the one who loses.

 

What???!! My point was allegorical, it can be multiplied a thousand times. You must be frightened to leave your house every morning in case a piano falls on your head!

 

I have not the faintest idea what you are on about.

My point is that until the Great British public can be trusted to behave (i.e. not trespass on railway infrastructure whenever the loco is on a mainline run) then NR has to take mitigation measures - and if those mitigation measures leave 4 year old boys and their grandparent upset, then so be it. Hopefully in time the message will eventually get through to the public at large that trespass (in any form) is NEVER acceptable, regardless of how famous a particular locomotive / train is and such mitigating measures will no longer be needed.

 

Pretty pointless spending significant sums of public funds to restore it to steam if the public are then going to be denied the chance to see it. Might have well saved £2 million by cosmetically restoring it for static display it at York where public safety isn't an issue. Pretty high handed to suggest the only people with a right to know the times are those who can afford inflated ticket prices for the tour.

 

It's about having a sense of proportion both in your comments and the aim of NR trying to stop the public seeing Scotsman. To stop the trespass just police one of the now notorious foot crossings and prosecute to the maximum fine and ensure maximum publicity.

 

Have you been living under a rock for the past couple of months. Have a look on the internet at the scenes of mass trespass all along the ECML when Scotsman did her first mainline run - which have now been repeated several times over in various places on the national network.

At no point did restoring Flying Scotsman come with a guarantee that other mainline rail services would slow to a crawl simply so the public could swam all over the tracks to see the thing - no it was restored on the understanding that the public would view it it the same way they view other steam locomotives - namely from the correct side of the boundary fence.

The ONLY reason why NR are taking this action is the inability of the public to keep off the tracks.

The said public have bought this on themselves - and its about time people on here understood that fact rather than making excuses for inexcusable behaviour.

IF - and its a big IF, the next few tours with Scotsman pass off without incident and the public stay where they are supposed to be when she passes, then NR will reconsider its decision and may decide to give out times again. However if the public have not learned their lesson NR will have to reimpose the information blackout.

 

Imagine the outcry IF Scotsman had hit and killed anyone of those trespassers on the ECML - or if one of timetabled service had done so in front of such crowds. (leaving aside the too frequent incidents in

Having tried (and often failed) to get both enthusiasts / membaaarrrs and general public to stay back on heritage lines, there seems to me that these trespassers perceive themselves to be invulnerable. Never seen a serious accident in these circumstances, but several very close calls / near misses !
"Stand clear of the platform edge" must not mean much to some.