Fife Circle - Flying Scotsman - 15/05/16

Bloody Hell, it's all getting a bit John Le Carre isn't it with 60103? "Nudge, Nudge, say no more!"
BBC Press Release 12-05-16:
"The follow up series to The Night Manager has been announced and it will be called The Secret Scotsman.
It will focus on a small band of people seeking to right the wrongs of a dictator (code name SD or NR or BTP, nobody knows the true identity) stopping the common (as muck) people from viewing a highly controversial Steam Locomotive out in the open, where, in the field, bad agents from other dangerous groups seek to spoil the hopes and ideals of those with half a brain by entering dangerous territory. All the good agents need are the top secret timings of the covert movements of the stealthy machine so they rebel and form small factions working in the shadows (of station roofs) to supply the timings to each other. One man (Mark Williams reprising his role as the "you ain't seen me right! character from the Fast Show)has the knowledge to get the timings and he wants to supply them But he has to be careful, there are moles round every corner....................."

 

Unlike you, I have seen what a deceased person does to the careers of drivers, p-way staff and others charged with clearing up the mess that gets left behind or the very real trauma of a near miss. To describe such a thing as 'hyperbole' is a very juvenile response and reflects badly on your attitudes to others. I also assume you are not one of the thousands of regular rail travellers that suffer delays each year because of the need to caution trains due to trespass incidents or one of the hundreds travelling on 25th Feburary who were seriously inconvenienced because the public could not stay the correct side of the fence.

Yes 30 people may be killed on the roads per week but that is most certainly not something to celebrate or treat as 'just one of those things'. Its something of a disgrace that society in general treats such deaths so casually when the relatives and friends of the deceased will no doubt suffer just as much as the relatives of those who may be hit by a train.

The UK railway industry has, by and large an excellent safety record, in no small part due to the desire to keep the public OFF the tracks and the last thing we want to do is dilute that just so some people can go and see a steam locomotive - however famous it might be pass by.

NR are not anti-steam but they are anti people who don't play by the rules - which is what you seem to be condoning. NR were quite happy for the timings of the initial runs to be publicised (as with all other steam charters to date) and look at the result - chaos (which incidentally saw a large wedge of your and my taxpayers money spent compensating regular TOCs / FOCs for the idiocy of the public. In the circumstances it is entirely correct for NR to take the actions they have done in relation to this one single locomotive, until the public have learnt to play by the very same rules that work quite well for say Ian Riley's Black Fives, Rod Aston Hall, etc. If you cannot see the fundamental logic in that then you obviously don't care that much about mainline steam in the decades ahead - which is, and always has been, conditional on steam fully complying with the required standards, the public behaving themselves and the operation of said trains not unduly disrupting the functioning of the mainline networks ability to offer its contracted level of service to conventional TOCs / FOCs

 

NR has a duty under open Government rules (its officially a Government department remember) to make its train describer and timetable data available to all who ask for it, and that includes most freight, departmental workings etc (unlike in France where SNCF only provide a limited amount passenger train information for outside organisations).

The only concession NR has in respect of this 'open Government' requirement is that certain 'sensitive' traffic and all commercial freight can have its descriptions randomised so its that much harder to work out what any particular service is. Passenger services (including charter trains) do not usually fall into the 'sensitive traffic' category so will be accessible for RTT to find.

In any case total secrecy per say has never been the objective (its a short term fix to a problem everyone hopes will have subsided in 6 months or so) - providing those that do get hold of the information behave responsibility (by not trespassing) then NR will be happy.

 

Thanks for that ....What a load of sanctimonious B****X. We are not talking about suicides and the terrible messed up heads on both sides. Especially the young Asian girls who have seen this as their only way out of forced marriage. Don't use these people for your out of proportion diatribe over trespassing.

 

Sigh, you still don't get it do you - it is unfortunate that there are still some people on this forum who still have difficulty comprehending the problem and will do everything possible to ignore / belittle it because they think they know better.

This forum is about railways and railway preservation, with this thread focusing on one particular loco and the unforeseen issues its return to steam has created. Brining other world events - however tragic and ('bigger' on terms of suffering, etc), into this discussion is a distraction and not relevant to this particular topic - which is about the lack of timings for the Scotsmans runs in Fife. If you wish to start discussions on forced marriage, migration, war, people trafficking, child abuse or any of the ills affecting the world then by all means start a separate thread where you can raise such things.

For others here is one of the things NR has done to try and encourage sensible behaviour while observing the Flying Scotsman

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-south-scotland-36290690?

 

I think in cases like this where NR are clearly shown to be incompetent, they should be forced to compensate the ToC, The Tour Promoter and the pax.

 

Does any bit of an A3 stick out any further than the corresponding bit of an A1 or an A4, both of which have been to Tweedbank?

 

The trouble is, it's time after time this happens, the only difference is that this time it's a high profile instance of the usual incompetence.

 

But of course that is not the point where network rail is concerned! Too much chocolate whilst sat doing nothing in the NRM will be the cause...!
Feeling sorry for all those who have payed good money for this trip, absolutely disgraceful behaivour by Network rail!

 

one way of solving the trespass issue i guess

 

From the SD website : -

Fife Evening Tour
Sunday 15 May 2016
At 16.40 this evening our Train Operating Company, West Coast Railways, received a call from Network Rail Special Train Planning in Milton Keynes, to say that Flying Scotsman was failed on its gauging (i.e. to find out if it would fit within the structures of the railway network such as bridges and platforms) to go over the Forth Bridge as it would not fit through the station at Dalmeny immediately before the bridge.
To say that we are disappointed on your behalf of passengers at the late notice of this information is an understatement.
The trip will therefore have to go ahead hauled by vintage diesel instead, unless Network Rail can offer an alternative solution. If this is the case than we will do our utmost to make it highly memorable day out on a vintage train.
This situation is a huge blow to passengers in Scotland, our team here at Steam Dreams who have spent the last 2 years planning this trip.

The Borders Scotsman
Sunday 15 May 2016
At 16.40 this evening our Train Operating Company, West Coast Railways, received a call from Network Rail Special Train Planning in Milton Keynes, to say that that they have been unable to gauge Flying Scotsman (i.e. to find out if it would fit within the structures of the railway network such as bridges and platforms) to go to Tweedbank because their system did not have the right data.
To say that we are disappointed on your behalf of passengers at the late notice of this information is an understatement.
The trip will therefore have to go ahead hauled by vintage diesel instead, unless Network Rail can offer an alternative solution. If this is the case than we will do our utmost to make it highly memorable day out on a vintage train.
This situation is a huge blow to passengers in Scotland, our team here at Steam Dreams who have spent the last 2 years planning this trip.

 

No surprise about this farce considering its in the domain of a certain ex-Route Managing Director of Network Rail (LNE). It seems once again he's failed to display "...a particular focus on improving both the customer experience of our services and the operational efficiencies of large teams, improving the quality and performance of the organisation's output." Its Christmas 2014 all over again...

 

Sounds very convenient for NR that they have just "realised" 60103 "won't fit". I bet Ian Riley is fuming. Another farce from NR.

Sent from my D6603 using Tapatalk

 

This really is a disgrace at the highest order compiled by Network Rail. To have a trip in the planning for two years as stated above by SD, them and the passengers have been effectively "robbed". To have the plug pulled 20 mins before the MK doghnut club went home, tells me that they didn't really want to face the music from the operators, media and alike and left it as late as possible!!! At the end of the day it will boil down to fears of tresspass sadly, and the A3 soon wont be running anywhere if MK have anything to do with it.

I get the feeling we wont be hearing the end of this one for a while!! Disgusting.

 

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