Next New Build to be completed

I saw parts of a model Dean Single he was building about 30 years ago, it was an absolutely perfect scaled down replica precise in every detail.

 

On the subject of New builds am I right in thinking there are two groups now building B17'S -?
( and they both have original Tenders ? )
So are they out to build different variants of the class or what ? or do one group just think that by calling a loco Man Utd tens of thousands of people with more money than judgement would instantly fund it ?....

 

Don't see why not - they funded Louis van Gaal on a similar basis...

Tom

 

And David Moyes. On which new build will be completed next, I think the contenders are The Brighton Atlantic, Patriot, Grange, NER G5 tank and 3MT 2-6-2 tank

 

Yes is the simple answer. You have the two groups being
1. The B17 Spirit of Sandringham who I spend a fair bit of time chatting to at various railways when on stands next to each other. They have their frames cut down at Llangollen and have ordered the drag box fabrication for completion during July. They have 2 tenders down at the mid Norfolk railway where they would like to be based in the future.
2. The Manchester United B17 down at some place beginning with M. They have another tender, a aluminium cab and a buffer beam with a smoke box door. From the look of a recent Facebook post they have ordered the smoke box saddle and smoke box to make the front look like a front end.

I do find it very odd that there are basically 2 groups doing exactly the same thing, I could understand if maybe one was building the streamlined B17. I do seriously hope that both groups at this current time concentrate on different sections just incase one doesn't make it and wants to donate what it has to the other. For instance the ones at Llan are doing the frames so the Manchester United group could focus on a bogie which only has a small footprint space wise. This way we don't end up with one or both projects failing and the same parts duplicated . Of course i do wish both projects the best and hope they succeed.


Gavin

 

Got to be the Saint really hasn't it?

 

Sorry, forgot the Saint! yes, definitely.

 

Interesting thought - 'we wont do the same component as the other group because we/they might be able to use it if they/we fail....' In any event I also hope that between them something gets built, A B17 /6 could be useful...as would two

 

The Man. Utd crowd are based at the Mizens Railway.

I don't think they've ordered the smokebox yet Gavin - just the saddle, which looks like it is being made from pretty thin steel - I don't think it would last very long in service. To be honest, I think the Man. Utd. group are dreamers, they acquired a tender which they say they have 'restored', but in reality all they did was paint it. It's still missing springs, couplings, intermediate buffers etc etc never mind the condition of the platework!


Keith

 

Have they appointed a 'VAB' ? (old parlance)

 

Are the Mizens group building a non-working example?

 

I believe it's supposed to be a working loco


Keith

 

Can you really call the 're arrange the GWR meccano set into a ' locos 'New builds' ? some of them must have more original parts than 71000. Is the defining factor New Frames ?

 

It's an interesting question. I would have said 2999 was a new build but it uses the frames from Maindy Hall. Equally, 4561 has new frames as part of its overhaul at Williton, yet I doubt anyone sees it as anything other than a heavy overhaul, certainly not a new build.

On the other hand I've heard it said several times that a loco exists when its frames are erected, so some certainly believe that it's the frames that carry the identity. Sorry, it seems I can't help...

 

Several recent posts on here have dismissed the old idea that the identity of a loco is defined by its frames, so what does define it? Both Lady of Legend and Betton Grange have new names and new numbers. That seems to me enough for them to count as new entities, albeit that they are incorporating many reused parts. The County doesn't qualify as a new build by those criteria, but it is clearly not the original County of Glamorgan, so it too qualifies as a new entity, in this case a re-incarnation (or should that be re-inferration? or re-embodiment?), again incorporating many reused parts.

 

The GWR approach was that it was called a new locomotive when that suited the current accounting situation, and called a rebuilt locomotive when that option suited the accounts better.

The frames thing is basically an enthusiast's myth.

So, in the case of both the Grange and Saint projects it clearly benefits the projects to be considered new locomotives, and therefore by good GWR precedent they are!

 

Surely a new build is when a kit of Locomotive parts come together to make a new or different Locomotive . So the Mogul at WSR would count as a new build in that respect, just as the Standard 2 tank is doing the exact same thing but the other way around.

As to when a Locomotive exists... well that's different altogether! For me there are a number of newbuilds that exist as they have as much in terms of parts as some restoration projects. 45551 and 6880 at Llan have most of their parts now, more than some Barry wrecks, but the B17 at the moment is currently just a set of frames, so does that make it a loco yet? Its a difficult question to answer. For me I would say no but then at what point does it? When the wheels are under? I don't honestly know.

 

As far as I am aware it has new 'extension' frames, the plate frames are from an existing Hall, can't remember which one though.