Lynton and Barnstaple - Operations and Development

As ever it's a balance between the realistic and the ambitious. Personally, I think the vision of the railway restored is inspiring - and I suspect this is helping boost visitor numbers. I take your very valid point about length of journey but maybe with Blackmoor as a centre more options will become possible.

 

I'll have a small wager with you.

If you will buy us lunch up to the tune of £20 when the L&B opens between Woody Bay and Blackmore Gate, I will buy dinner to the tune of £100 when it opens between stations in Lynton and Barnstaple.

Can't say fairer than that, can I?

Robin

 

If it were the other way round I might accept.

PH

 

You have to have the courage of your convictions!

(Or convictions caused by Courage!)

Robin

 

The problem with your argument, Paul, is that you draw sweeping generalisations but seem unable to back them up with real evidence! Can you, for example, list a railway that is failing due to an extension? It is fair to say that many may find it difficult to adjust to the new realities of running an enhanced service but that is generally a temporary situation and I cannot think of an example that has been an out and out disaster.

 

I find this approach frustrating, because it seeks to apply a particular template to railway preservation. That model works well in a number of places, and is not to be knocked. However, it is not the only viable model out there, and it is frustrating to see it continually bandied around as if it were the answer to all problems.

If "all" the L&B achieve is a run from Woody Bay to Wistlandpound, they will have done exceptionally well. If they manage to extend towards Lynton (and let us bear in mind that this extension will not be the "means of access used in 1910"), then I see a challenge in avoiding repeating the (deliberate?) failings of the original L&B and being too far out for tourists to actually use.

Going the other way, the journey down the hill by way of Narracott, Bratton Fleming (ok, Bratton Fleming station!), Chelfham and Snapper will be a scenic delight, and is to me fundamentally what the L&B is about. If the L&B can get into Pilton, they will have a station in the centre of Barnstaple, well placed for day trippers and coach parties to use. I will eat my hat if they get to Barnstaple Town, and I'll definitely buy you an expensive meal if the L&B ever make it to Barnstaple Junction

That journey through glorious countryside is what would make a revived L&B. If the L&B can raise the capital to restore that, and the labour force to maintain it, we should support them.

Ask hard and probing questions, challenge complacency by all means. But, please, stop sniping at ambitious projects that don't fit your template.

 

The problem will come when we are all dead and those then in charge will find that the old jossers have just been spending money without too much thought. It is relatively easy to tap people for new projects or obtain grants for them. The problem will be when this stuff requires renovation.

As I have said several times before this is not a transport operation but a leisure activity. There is a limit to what people will spend on such things. If they will spend £10 on a 10 mile journey they may not spend £15 on a 15 mile one so the rate per mile may well need to be adjusted downwards. If by increasing length of journey it is necessary to run another rake of vehicles then costs will increase even further. None of this is good business.

PH

 

So, remind me, what happened on the NYMR when a bridge needed replacing?

I repeat my previous observation. Challenge complacency by all means, but please, please, stop doing so by trying to push the template you are familiar with, and by presuming that others aren't viable.

And when you do challenge, consider that what is viable on the IoW or in Mid Wales may differ from what is viable in Devon. People's time, people's budgets, the type of trip people will do - all may vary.

 

The problem with all this is it assumes too much. Firstly whether the general public will fork out to travel the entire length of line enthusiasts want them to (for this is what it amounts to). Secondly, it is unlikely to happen in any form without grants, principally Heritage Lottery ones. The W.H.R. could go to the Welsh Assembly and whilst one heard rumours of all kinds of political argy-bargy, the railway was successful although there was nothing fancy about the facilities which could be afforded.

Being a cynic, I actually think it is easier to talk about a fifteen mile project than a five mile one. People expect a bit more detail about the shorter scheme whilst you might be able to get away with excited arm waving regarding the longer one.

Blackmoor seems the ideal starting point. It is a reasonable distance from Woody Bay and lies on a crossroads between roads to various resort areas. This is another thing you have got to used to railway enthusiasts. Passengers will come by road and if the product and advertising are good enough, they are likely to come

PH

 

I agree with you that bigger schemes can be more prone to "arm waving" than small, and also that running Woody Bay - Wistlandpound with Blackmoor Gate as the centre of operations would be a good result. You also have a fair point about needing to establish whether people will travel in sufficient numbers - though you appear to discount the value of part journeys.

But I read into your comments a more fundamental issue with the use of grants to fund reopening. If so, what is the underlying issue with that - and if reopening could be achieved without it, would that change your opinion of the viability of the project?

 

The L &B extension will not happen with HLF money, that's one thing I'm certain of - its just not the sort of thing they fund. Bits of it may - such as a visitor centre at Blackmoor Gate but the expensive bit, the head of steel, whilst it may be part-funded by grants (probably some EU regional development funds if we are still eligible for them when the time comes!) will require a substantial input from the L&BR itself.

As for the movement running out of steam because the "old fogeys" are dying off, again where is the evidence for this? We must be several generations in now and we're still seeing expansion, not contraction, And actually we're seeing the old fogeys continuing to contribute even after they are dead, via legacies which are being used to build undercover storage and other projects that will help to provide lo9ng term security for what previous generations have succeeded in rescuing.

 

I can live with that.....

Robin

 

The NYMR has the largest carryings of any tourist railway in the UK. If any line could afford major renewal expenditure it would be them. Aging bridges will be a general problem for tourist railways.

PH

 

I have this wonderful vision of the L&B running past the Granny Farm at Barnstaple Town and crossing the river on an aesthetically outstanding bridge (unlike the original one) to reach Barnstaple Junction, then turning west through Bideford, Great Torrington, Halwill Junction to Meldon where it would take the northernmost bridge to reach Okehampton. No doubt Paul would think that too long a journey.

 

Not forgetting the eastern extension to a joint station at Minehead via the Porlock Hill rack-worked section....

Robin

 

Actually I don't have a problem with grants at all. In many ways they tell to the world that the recipient is a bona fide organisation. I only have doubts when there is some political involvement.

Paul H

 

Can't work out if you are being very generous, or taking a long-range punt on the rate of inflation over the expected lifetime of the project!

Tom

 

I think it's more a case of not realising that it's usual for the loser to pay out on a bet rather than the winner.

 

If they get to the proposed location for a terminus, it is only ten minutes walk from the centre of Lynton

 

I am sure we all endorse and support the current phase of the extension plans.

I think things are panning out pretty well with the planning stuff.

There are also behind the scenes a lot of stuff that negates many of the substantial objections re Parracombe.

Parracombe was always going to be the major hurdle.

Cheers,
Julian