Best & Worst Locos to Drive

Thank you very much for your illuminating posting. My regard for H.G. Ivatt increases. Instead of feeling disappointed that relatively few of his modern small engines got built, I am now amazed that as many got built as did!


Paul H (In reply to L.M.S. 2968)

 

You're very welcome, Paul, and thank you.

George Ivatt: the not so famous son of a famous father, not academically gifted but a true practical engineer, able to see both the problem and solutions instinctively. By all accounts, he was probably the most laid back CME ever: not only did he insist on leaving work at the designated end of the day, he insisted that his staff did too. And they still got through all the work.

His legacy: considering he held office for only two years, he left a good many locos. The Class 2 2-6-0 and 2-6-2T were perpetuated as BR standards almost unaltered, his Class 4 2-6-0 formed most of the BR Standard Class 4 2-6-0, and then there were his modifications to the pacifics, 6256/57. Not forgetting his triumph in getting Britain's first main line diesel, No. 10000, on the rails just prior to Nationalisation, and then consider where this and its sister led.

For all his relaxed attitude, he achieved much.

 

Perhaps that should read because of his relaxed attitude, he achieved much ...

Tom

 

The finest express passenger engines ever to grace British rails; with the possible exception of 71000, after rebuilding, (by amateurs!)

IMHO, of course!

 

Such a shame one of them didn't survive.

 

By the time Terry started working at Saltley, it had been LMS for nearly 30 years, so I'd hardly say he was a Midland man, and I don't see you have any grounds for assuming that he had little background knowledge of Super Ds, just because Saltley was an ex-Midland shed.

Unless his autobigraphies are a pack of lies, he didn't expect his drivers to drive as though they were Midland 'gently does it' men - and he fired so as to give his drivers full scope for getting the maximum performance out of the LMS and BR Standard engines. And, even if he'd never set foot on a Super D before, do you really think the old North Western driver would have let him pile coal into the box without a word? I hardly think so!

I still say it's a tacit admittance by the driver that poor steaming was a regular occurrence on Super Ds.

With best regards,

Jack

 

But did I refer to a jimmy in my post? No, I did not! I spoke specifically about a petticoat pipe - and NOT a jimmy - which is an entirely different thing.

 

But did Saltley have an allocation od Super Ds? Not to my knowledge

The boiler performed well enough to be the basis of that for Fowler's 7F o-8-0, the Austin 7s, in preference to the S&DJR 2-8-0s. The D's had many faults, but poor steaming wasn't one of them, provided you knew what you were doing. I've read many of Terry's books. Very entertaining, but his opinions of many engines were out of step with those of almost all other LMS and LMR men I've spoken to. And to forestall your next question, I was a guard at Edge Hill (ex-LNWR) in the early 1970s, when memories of steam were still fresh and the subject was still often raised. I made sure of that!

 

I remember talking about Super Ds with an ex Stockport Edgeley fireman a few weeks ago. He wasn't keen on them, but did say that they were powerful and steamed well. In the same discussion, he described 4Fs as "crap"!

Edgeley, being an ex LNWR shed, presumably wouldn't have liked anything Midland. The Austin 7s tended to congregate at ex L & Y sheds, Bury and Lees (Oldham) both had allocations of them, but they were replaced fairly early after nationalisation by WD 2-8-0s

 

I've always wondered why the General Managers / Boards allowed this sort of empire defence to go on. The Highland River Class must be the worst.