LNER V2s at Swindon Works.

Indeed, I have mentioned before that my dad worked inside in the offices for a period (late 50's/early 60's) and spent a lot of time speaking with the trials inspectors at lunchtimes, he always said that they all thought the Castles were wonderful (and just as you described), the Kings were not up to the same high standard mainly due to the problems firing them and they all got misty eyed when they spoke about how good the Saints were!

 

Roll on 2999 Saint Barry then

 

I'd imagine The axleloading was a factor too, being restricted to Padd to Wolves/Bristol/Plymouth until pretty late in the day, not much use for the Cornishman for example.

 

Information that I have suggests the following
c1963
965189-965201 Cowlairs (13)

Then Order dated 16/11/1964, built between 2/1965 & 6/1965
965203-216 Cowlairs (14)
965217-231 Eastleigh (15)
965232-243 Swindon (12)

Finally
965307-309 Derby 1968 (3)

The above information is courtesy of Bob Wallace

I think it was actually the rear of the tender which had the frame alterations. Evidence for this is the position of the brake shoes and the brake column in the cab of the snowplough (which was originally the front of the tender). Regarding the use of the V2 pony truck wheelsets, the rear wheelsets of the V2 were 3'8" in diameter so these would not have been used. The front pony truck wheelsets were 3'2" but this would have required new axles as the snowploughs have outside bearings while the front pony truck had inside bearings. Obviously not impossible to change an axle but standard wagon wheelsets were normally 3'1.5" so a slightly thicker tyre would have give a diameter of 3'2", however I have no definite evidence as to what actually happened.

I still can't offer a reason why the Group Standard tender was selected as the basis of the snowplough though design work was done at Cowlairs so they may have decided to use a design they were familiar as this works maintained LNER locos.

The other intriguing point is how were the tenders delivered to Eastleigh for conversion as no LNER locos were broken up there to the best of my knowledge.

 

With regard to Kings vs Castles the late Ray Tranter fired both from Stafford Road. He commented that the Castles were a breeze to fire, with a King it was head down arse in the air all the way to Paddington.

 

Assuming this is accurate 15 V2's were broken up at Swindon? http://www.railuk.info/steam/getscrap.php?id=93 so 3 more than tenders converted to ploughs at the same location?

 

Yes. No idea why. The tenders were actually listed by Swindon as 'cut up' according to information in the Yeadon archive in Hull though in reality the chassis were retained for snowplough conversion.

 

This raises more questions!

I've just had a look at our example, and I have no doubt, from the depth of the headstock, that the front (loco end) of the tender forms the rear (coupling end) of the snowplough. As to the smaller plough-end wheelsets, having just measured them, they are only 2' 10" diameter. They are clearly loco type wheelsets, heavy cast spoked wheels with very thick axles and centre bosses. Also, the axleboxes are the same type as fitted to the other wheelsets, which appear to be the original tender ones.

So, where did the small wheelsets come from?

 

Wouldn't be the same gang cutting up old locomotives as were erecting new diesels surely...

 

2'-10" is only 1" of tyre war on a 3'-0" wheel, which is possible but V2 wheels were 3'-2". Are the small wheelsets of LNER origin? LNER locos generally had the tyres riveted to the wheel centres. Just wonder if the wheelsets are of GWR origin? (We should have been discussing this yesterday; could have looked then!!)

 

The 3'2" measurement comes from the drawings in the BR issued document on use and maintenance of these snowploughs. Your smaller wheelset is quite intriguing. What is the number of the plough that you measured? Though all the ploughs were given the same diagram number there are apparently variations between the batches so perhaps this is one of the variations. Generally it is almost impossible to see the plough wheels, but the only clear picture of the small wheelsets that I've seen did show spoked wheels.

 

I was passed this info a few years back from someone on Scotrail.

ADB 965189 was the prototype built at St Rollox works in 1962, using modified frames off an LMS 3500gal tender.
This one lacked the side skirts which the later ploughs had.
Six more, ADB 965196-201 were built at Cowlairs works in 1963, said to be on LNER tender frames.
ADB 965203-243 built under lot 3539 in 1965 at Eastleigh works, using the frames off LNER V2 tenders.
ADB 965307-309 built at Derby in 1968 under lot 3667. Unusure of origins of the frames.

 

This series of photos may answer some questions.
Not sure which works or which ploughs.

Same source as the previous post.

 

Well, the smaller leading wheelset is confirmed too. I wouldn't know Eastleigh, but it doesn't look like any part of Swindon works I'm familiar with.

 

Our plough, which I measured, is 965204.

Very interesting pictures. They show that there were considerable variations, for example the penultimate picture shows spoked rear, i.e. original, large wheels, whereas our example has solid disc wheels and spoked front, small wheels.

I notice that one of the ploughs shown has side windows, whereas our's, and all the others that I've seen, have only a small rear window. This may explain a story told me by a driver friend who, some years ago, was driving a pair of 37s with Independent Snowploughs through deep drifts near Bury St. Edmunds. It was the crew's first outing with these large, purpose-built ploughs (they were used to the old tender ploughs) so the gang occupied the plough cab and the drifts were approached confidently. All went well until they charged a particularly deep drift in a cutting, when my friend noticed desperate gesticulation in the rear window; the snow had stove-in the side windows and the plough cab was rapidly filling up with the stuff!

 

Re the 1968 Derby built: I remember seeing two ex-departmental class B1's cab to cab minus tenders outside Derby shed in summer 1968, No.32 was one of them.


EDIT. Having spent the afternoon digging in the back bedroom, I have found that these were Departmental locos Nos. 30 (Ex 61050) and 32 (Ex 61315). Evidently they were booked to be hauled to Derby Works from Barrow Hill on June 21st.

 

Fascinating photos, thanks for sharing them.

I would say from the background tenders and locos that this is a scottish works as there is an LMS Black 5 in one picture and an LNER Group Standard tender in another picture. The second from last picture showing a plough without skirts is a different plough from that in the pictures of the plough under construction as the horns only have two pieces on either side not three as on the LNER axleboxes. Is this an LMS axlebox confirming the theory that the first one was built on an LMS chassis?