If you register, you can do a lot more. And become an active part of our growing community. You'll have access to hidden forums, and enjoy the ability of replying and starting conversations.

42424 - New Build Fowler Tank

Discussion in 'Steam Traction' started by steam_mad, May 21, 2015.

  1. Jamessquared

    Jamessquared Nat Pres stalwart

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2008
    Messages:
    26,105
    Likes Received:
    57,435
    Location:
    LBSC 215
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    <BlatantPlug>I think 32424 will be finished first - you could always ask to borrow that for a gala and engage in a spot of clandestine renumbering!</BlatantPlug>

    Tom
     
  2. Steve

    Steve Resident of Nat Pres Friend

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2006
    Messages:
    11,930
    Likes Received:
    10,088
    Occupation:
    Gentleman of leisure, nowadays
    Location:
    Near Leeds
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    Wouldn't be as good, though........;)
     
    Gav106 likes this.
  3. jtx

    jtx Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2007
    Messages:
    1,868
    Likes Received:
    855
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Happily retired
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    I am sure it will, Tom, give their respective stages of development. If I ever get a chance to drive that beauty, my cup will truly runneth over!
     
  4. paulhitch

    paulhitch Guest

    Another poster wonders, quite rightly, about the relevance of this divergence from the original topic. However, having got here. can I just say that aero engines, even in wartime, were cosseted to a degree unheard of in a loco. shed. They were carefully warmed up and rebuilt after a set number of flying hours. According to two sources ( one to me personally , an R.N. Engineer Commander, and another an R.A.F. mechanic recounted by his son) sleeve valve aero engines were a pain in the botty! Bulleid could and should have found out. This is not, however, the way dabblers work.

    PH
     
    LMS2968 likes this.
  5. Romsey

    Romsey Part of the furniture

    Joined:
    Jul 14, 2007
    Messages:
    3,619
    Likes Received:
    1,637
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Retired SPM
    Location:
    Close to Spike Island
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    That agrees with my fathers view that that the RR Merlin engine was vastly easier to work on than the Bristol Centaurus engine. Also front line bomber squadrons used unit replacement changing engines or turbo chargers with refurbished examples to provide maximum aircraft availability. I think he said an engine change on a Lancaster took 6 or 7 hours plus ground and air testing.

    Cheers, Neil
     
  6. andrewshimmin

    andrewshimmin Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2011
    Messages:
    1,761
    Likes Received:
    2,160
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    It is sometimes essential in engineering to test something to show it is really a bad idea. Mr Bulleid played this important role.
     
    LMS2968 likes this.
  7. paulhitch

    paulhitch Guest

    Sorry, it had already been tested and found to be a bad idea in the commercial world.

    Paul H
     
  8. Martin Perry

    Martin Perry Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Moderator Friend

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2006
    Messages:
    16,510
    Likes Received:
    7,753
    Location:
    1012 / 60158
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    Quite so; a Napier Sabre aero engine did about 25 hours service between major overhauls, less if emergency boost had been used a lot.
     
  9. Jamessquared

    Jamessquared Nat Pres stalwart

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2008
    Messages:
    26,105
    Likes Received:
    57,435
    Location:
    LBSC 215
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    Yes, though Bulleid tested the sleeve valve idea by modifying H1 Atlantic "Hartland Point", and an objective view of that loco, following considerable period of running, should have made it clear that it had higher coal and water consumption, suffered valve gear breakages while in service and on a number of occasions contrived to get stuck in a position such that it would not start in either direction. Despite that, the Leader project went ahead...

    Tom
     
    andrewshimmin and paulhitch like this.
  10. Bulleid Pacific

    Bulleid Pacific Part of the furniture

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2007
    Messages:
    3,991
    Likes Received:
    1,039
    Occupation:
    A Thingy...
    Mainly because I don't think the trial results were fully analysed before the Board rushed into ordering them.
     
  11. Kinghambranch

    Kinghambranch Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2006
    Messages:
    1,868
    Likes Received:
    1,588
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Retired
    Location:
    White Rose County
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    Indeed, and, for those who aren't quite sure what one looks like, here is a rare survivor bolted onto one of its main users, the Hawker Typhoon (RAFM Cosford).
    20140415-10-Hawker Typhoon 1b MN235 in Conservation Centre.JPG
     
  12. paulhitch

    paulhitch Guest

    S.A.C.Martin surely has a point here in contrasting the lambasting given to Thompson (IMHO possibly rightly) with the excuses made for Bulleid (IMHO probably over generously). Once again sorry for thread divergence!

    PH
     
    S.A.C. Martin and Martin Perry like this.
  13. Jamessquared

    Jamessquared Nat Pres stalwart

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2008
    Messages:
    26,105
    Likes Received:
    57,435
    Location:
    LBSC 215
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    An engine so powerful the damn thing could even fly without wings :)

    Tom
     
    Kinghambranch likes this.
  14. Enterprise

    Enterprise Part of the furniture

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2005
    Messages:
    5,276
    Likes Received:
    3,077
    The debate about the advantages and disadvantages of poppet valves and sleeve valves in aircraft engines is far more nuanced than the facile hearsay reported in this thread. As an elementary starting point anyone interested could start by reading Fedden - The Life of Sir Roy Fedden.
     
    andrewshimmin likes this.
  15. 35B

    35B Nat Pres stalwart

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2011
    Messages:
    25,494
    Likes Received:
    23,734
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Grantham
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    For those of us in need of a very brief primer, and without ready access to a library copy, please could you provide a brief pointer to the key issues.

    Sent from my GT-N8010 using Tapatalk
     
  16. Gav106

    Gav106 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2010
    Messages:
    1,741
    Likes Received:
    2,017
    Location:
    Nantwich, Cheshire
    For a second I looked on Nat pres and thought people were interested in the Fowler 2-6-4 tank.....

    No real updates to be said about it at the moment. As you can imagine all our efforts are being pumped into the Patriot, however if there is anyone who isn't particularly interested in that loco but would want to be part of the build of the tank please do get in contact.
     
  17. Bulleid Pacific

    Bulleid Pacific Part of the furniture

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2007
    Messages:
    3,991
    Likes Received:
    1,039
    Occupation:
    A Thingy...
    What I was getting at was that it seems the results coming from Hartland Point (ie. don't use sleeve valves on a steam locomotive) weren't really applied to the main design. This can probably be attributed to two things: Bulleid wanting to plough on regardless (likely), and the pressure provided by the SR Board in placing an order for a fleet (equally likely). Anyway, back to Fowler...
     
  18. Cartman

    Cartman Well-Known Member Account Suspended

    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2015
    Messages:
    2,290
    Likes Received:
    1,672
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Van driver
    Location:
    Cheshire
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    Back to Fowler - its a nice loco and I look forward to seeing it. It was just what the Southern could have done with, instead of wasting money on the Leader :)
     
    LesterBrown likes this.
  19. LMS2968

    LMS2968 Part of the furniture

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2006
    Messages:
    2,987
    Likes Received:
    5,084
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Lecturer retired: Archivist of Stanier Mogul Fund
    Location:
    Wigan
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    Not sure. The Southern had a very capable 2-6-4T of their own, but it didn't like their permanent way. Would the LMS version do any better?
     
  20. Johnb

    Johnb Nat Pres stalwart

    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2014
    Messages:
    14,319
    Likes Received:
    16,398
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Retired, best job I've ever had
    Location:
    Buckinghamshire
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    The Southern seemed to get a bit paranoid about using tank locos for high speed passenger work after the River Class derailment. The W Class 2-6-4Ts were allocated to the two local sheds to where I spent my spotting years, Hither Green and Norwood Junction and spent their time plodding around with transfer freights from North London and were never seen on passenger trains. This is not surprising as I don't think Norwood Junction had regular passenger turns and Hither Green only had one, a commuter train from Cannon Street for which it always kept its only King Arthur in pristine condition.
    It would have been interesting to see how the Ws performed in comparison to the LMS and Standard tanks on passenger work.
     

Share This Page