Where Now for Main Line Steam?

So far......................

VT are setting themselves up to be a TOC
A1SLT is looking at a rake of rebuilt MK3 stock for steam haulage
Sooner or later all stock on NR will need 'controlled emission' toilets
There is all the controversy about the use of Diesels
Jeremy Hoskings plans
And an increasingly fast and crowded national network

So what do we see as the future?

 

repeat itinerary tours based on set routes with known watering points, a marked reduction on one offs, with most london departure points being deisel or electric hauled to locations further up north/ west where steam would take over, the exception being the british pulman and southern hills type operations, based on victoria
in this though with some operators such as VT becoming their own toc, there may be more veriety with motive power but based on their prefered routes there may be some new repeat itinerys, such as weymouth to bristol / Salisbury using locos that may stable at Swanage , and a resurgence of Canterbury type operations, ie shorter runs that give you a day out in interesting places but get you back at a decent time . i do predict at least 2 more pannier type " fun jollies" if VT do take everything in house , maybe some branch line visits if a way can be found to get the duo down to a suitable starting place

 

The future? Increased use of the national network could result in some preserved railway systems being brought back into the national system, especially if there was:
a) a change of government
b) a different view of the present operating systems, by any government
c) a local need due to housing developments and other infrastructures.
Some heritage railways do not own their track bed and others are of sufficient length for possible future viability.

 

Which ones do you think might be involved, I can't think of many which would form part of the national system unless you include such operations as the Lavender line.

 

i can't think of any that would apart from the lavender line and they could with the compensation set up elsewhere , or move to another preservation sceme , and the dartmoor railway, who are not likily to be there much longer as don't the owners want to sell the site and trackbed of the line back to the junction with the NR , If NR were to buy this, it would reopen the way to re introducing regular passenger services as far as Oakhampton,

 

I'm not sure that any of this is relevant to the future of main line steam. As for retention toilets, I understand the Crewe have developed such a system for a Mk.1 coach and one has already been fitted so this shouldn't be a problem. I understand that Mk.2 & 3's are more of a challenge as no underframe to hang tanks off.

 

Hopefully some of the high-speed traffic will move onto HS2, freeing up the regular network for stopping trains, freight and steam.

 

HS2's at least ten years away, though.

If you look at the A1 and VT announcements, I'd say the connection is that both are attempting to reduce the amount of possible variables and bring everything under their own control as far as possible. Which makes sense in a more difficult environment for steam.

 

The Mk3s design used in the 442s units included retention tanks - and provision was made in the Irish variant I believe. Just because it lacks a separate underframe doesn't mean there is nothing suitable to attach stuff too - while I have no first hand knowledge I suspect that in reality there is quite a lot of room within those skirts of an ordinary Mk3 to fit such tanks.

Mk2s may be a little more tricky - but hardly insurmountable given they already have bits hanging off the bottom of the coach

 

I did say 'I understand' because that is what I was told by those at Crewe. I have no first hand knowledge of what the exact problems are.

 

Why not just buy the 442s and adapt them for steam haulage? They seem to have a rather uncertain future at the moment...

 

i suspect that may be the A1 trusts master plan, of course, with the delay of the electrification, of the GW route the trailer coaches could even end up being re used as loco hauled stock with surplus 67's providing the power.

 

A couple of questions:-

Firstly, for the mods:- shouldn't this be in the "Mainline activity and tours - What's going on" section of the forum?
Secondly, it's new to me (although not entirely a surprise) that VT is to set up its own TOC. Is there any link to this? I've tried the VT website but couldn't see any sort of statement about it.

 

http://www.national-preservation.com/threads/vintage-trains-applies-to-become-a-toc.824618/page-2 - fill yer boots! Whole thread on it here - probably just dropped down the screen a bit.

 

Thank you for directing me to this. I was pleased to read through the thread to get up to speed on the issues and have added my congrats to the VT team.

 

A bit like what David Smith did 21 years ago! No sure what the A1/VT connection is though? Unless the former is planning on becoming a ToC too, it will still be reliant on a 3rd party!

 

I think you have just described the period 1975-1985 where SLOA trains such as the Cumbrian Mountain Express and Cumbrian Coast Express seemed to rule the roost, often the ticket covered a service train to somewhere around Birmingham, electric to Carnforth the steam (often steam to Hellifield and then a different loco to Carlisle).

Its actually becoming something of a rich mans game and whilst that might be viable whilst many who love steam are reaching retirement age and thus have some disposable income, be interesting to see what is being done to inspire the next generations, I am in my 40's and was going on trains when I was under 5 with my dad, looking at the prices now I cannot see me doing the same with my daughter as it just isn't viable.

 

open access does open up opportunities ,for instance by repeat i mean a tour that is of limited duration two times a day over a shorter route along with the longer tours, sometimes combining both, as a way to move stock and engines, i am thinking back to the Eastleigh - Salisbury shuttles, that NSE ran, at that time the lime was not heavily used and baseing 3 engines at Eastleigh was in its self an attraction, the future i think has to be in maximising what you can do to get the maximum interest and bums on seats, Technology will no doubt come into it, being able to use a much smaller electronics package , that can be changed from loco to loco and updated via a laptop , would allow owners of smaller engines who want to go mainline, to do it, i would think that a Eastleigh Salisbury week end of repeat tours alternating with 76084 and 31874 would sell out, and both could stable at Swanage overnight , its more this type of shorter run at a more affordable fare.
For instance, the tour could start at Waterloo on the friday evening, with say 34046, or 35018, runs to Swanage, next day the two mogols take the tour to eastleigh, one comes off, other takes stock onward returnns after turning at Salisbury, engine change , then last run is double headed returns to Swanage, on the final run on the sunday, the tour extends to Weymouth with both mogols, either 34046, or 35018 comes on , and the tour , with both mogols banking as far as Wareham, where they come off, tour rerturns to london, and over the week end Swange has a guest loco for its services until the engine is needed to run to weymouth LE . thats how you get two, or three for the price of one,

 

I'd like to hope that some of your predictions are right. I have made several posts on other threads advocating shorter days out. If someone was to resuscitate the type of trains run by SD in its early days, such as London-Canterbury or Salisbury, I'd be thrilled. They were the right length for me. The growth in dining passengers is an important factor, however. These people need to be able to enjoy their meal at a leisurely pace. Two and a half hours is a minimum here for the return leg. I recall reading about the VT "Bristolian" where 5043 was running so far ahead of time on the return leg, it caused a major consternation for the catering people, even if everyone else was throughly enjoying the performance!

Talking of VT, fun as the pannier-hauled trains seem to be, I can't see the setting up of a separate TOC making any difference to the principle of avoiding lengthy LE movements to get to a starting point well away from Tyseley, especially given the pathing constraints with two small-wheeled tank engines. I'd love to travel on a pannier jolly in the SE area and could dream up some exciting itinteraries but I just don't see it happening. VT, I would predict, will remain essentially a Midlands-based operation.

 

Nope

Don't forget the IEPs are bi-modes and although the original DfT ordered ones had their diesel engine power artificially restricted, GWR has gone and order some without the restrictions for Devon & Cornwall services which means it is quite possible for the DfT to pay Hitachi to remove the restrictions on the sets they have ordered as well.