Clean or Weathered, ex Patriot thread.

I think liveries have always been a big debating point. And always will be. Some enthusiasts have a loyalty to a particular pre-BR company, and see the application of BR livery as sacrilege. Others want to see the liveries they remember, which for most people means BR livery.

I like them all, so I'm in favour of the proposal to rotate liveries on the Patriot.

I'd love to see someone let their 8F or 9F get genuinely work-stained. Most locos were grimy in my childhood, especially non-passenger types.

 

It will look superb. I think mixed rakes of maroon and blue/grey mark 1s with the occasional 2 look OK behind steam anyway, as I can remember seeing them at the tail end of steam, as I am just about old enough to remember the last year or two of steam on BR

 

But there's no money in reminding people of your childhood.

 

Cleaning is the first line of maintenance. A dirty loco is not being properly maintained. Are you wanting people to fail to maintain their locos properly?

 

If we wanted to be recreating the supposed "glory days" of the 1960s, what we should be doing with steam locos is scrapping them, and replacing them with (partially inadequate) diesels...
Or we could acknowledge that the real glory days were somewhat earlier.

 

Much of a locomotive's character is (or was) in the way it weathered with use. By keeping them excessively clean I think they lose character.

But you are all quite correct that cleaning is part of good maintenance, and the general public might also prefer an ex-works finish (although this has not been put to the test).

This might be unfair, but some restored locos have a finish that is way in excess of a steam-age ex-works finish. Too much gloss. Too much burnished metal.

 

Even in pre-war days, when locos were cleaned regularly, they still became weathered after a while.

 

Was fun painting it in that colour though, especially when it got the reaction it was intended to receive

 

We are often complimented for the cleanliness of our trains, both the loco and carriages, inside and out. Dinner manor was left in weathered condition for a week or so for a photo charter last year and certainly attracted some negative comments from what I saw , although as far as I know crews quickly explained the reasoning and folk were quite happy. Not sure if they'd be quite so understanding if we had them like that all the time though.

Definitely agree with your last paragraph though, things can get a bit *too* shiny sometimes!

 

This is a Black 5 in BR days. OK, not the norm, but obviously burnished metal and gloss to the fore. This obviously makes it OK for 45428 to be kept spic and span nowadays!
.

 

Agreed...the 'pocket rocket' looked good on the Cambrians in 2008!

https://johnleyland.smugmug.com/CD/My-Smug-Mug/i-rj2HGZ9

 

Lovely shot John.

 

Nice. Was this cosmetically weathered, or did it just get like this?

 

IMO 45428 has a nice authentic finish, not over the top.

 

For the casual punter, though, a heritage railway is selling a bit of fantasy, a step back in time to a more glamourous era and all that. Whatever the reality may have been, the fantasy is of gleaming engines blowing off steam and so on. You need to keep them looking shiny to preserve that. Much as it's probably closer to the truth to see them covered in grime, it doesn't suit what heritage rail is currently providing.

I rather think they look good all bright and shiny, but that's me.

 

I agree that this should be the norm, for all the reasons stated; good maintenance, public image, etc.. There is a market amongst enthusiasts for weathered locos. A number of events have featured weathered locos either for photo charters or galas. In all cases this has been artificially applied weathering, and sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't.

Many years ago the owners of the 9F on the GCR (92212?) said that they were going to let their engine become naturally weathered. It never happened, and it moved away.

 

92212, whilst maintained to a high standard is currently suffering from being over cleaned during its 8 or so years in service and the paint is now weather worn rather than shiny.

In my view this engine has something unique at the moment and looks very authentic on the front of a freight or passenger service.

 

If you recreated the steam railway 100% accurately on a heritage line it would not be popular with the public. It would have to be a bit grimy and slightly run down, as I remember it being in the 60s when I was a kid. Enthusiasts would like it but the general public would not. What you are recreating is an impression of the railway as it was, there are many differences really from a preserved line and the railway as it existed. A few, like the Bluebell, get close to a recreation of earlier eras as they started early and had more choice of locos and stock at that time. In most cases a relatively short branch would be 2 or 3 coaches, probably non corridors, with a class 3 or 4 tank, either that or a DMU. There would be much less rolling stock than you find on the preserved lines too.

 

Keeping a loco clean also shows you have pride in it. Certainly creates a good impression with the paying public. When you've spent a six figure sum on restoring/overhauling a loco as well as countless hours of sweat and toil, letting the loco get dirty just to please a few casual onlookers is not uppermost in an owner's mind. If Mr. Light would care to send a donation of around £5000 however, I'm sure we could leave off cleaning 34081 for a few days so he can live out his fantasy.