Is there such a thing as too many heritage railways?

Well if your pockets are deep enough anything is available if you are prepared to pay the price.

 

Well I suppose! I know some folk who wouldn't sell their stock for anything though!

 

You need to watch the Godfather

 

Lots of factors that make new schemes difficult and unlikely to succeed:

- Money. It costs a fortune these days to lay track, and restore stations, locos and rolling stock, and to operate and maintain it all.
- Manpower. Most preserved lines need a decent pool of volunteers to restore, operate and maintain the railway and its rolling stock. Unless you are in an area that has lots of potential volunteers waiting in the wings, you are unlikely to attract sufficient free labour.
- Selling point. As mentioned above, your new attraction needs something special to draw enough people to make it viable. Just running trains is not really enough.
- Location. Where is your railway going to draw its customers from? Is it near a popular resort? Or a big conurbation?
- Competition. Is your railway going to be far enough from other preserved lines, so that you are not competing for the same customers?

However, I wouldn't want to discourage anyone who has the vision, money and determination to create a successful preserved railway. Ideally it would be in an area where there are plenty of tourists and no competing railway attractions, but not too far from a source of volunteer labour. Locos and rolling stock might not be that great a problem so long as the instigators have very deep pockets. There are plenty of locos and carriages that could be restored if only the funds were available.

A better bet these days might be a narrow gauge or miniature railway using purpose-built locos and rolling stock, run entirely as a commercial venture, possibly on a former trackbed. Bure Valley and Kirklees are good examples. Heatherslaw is another. None of these can be considered heritage or preserved railways. They are run as businesses with paid employees and without the headache of keeping ex-BR locos and rolling stock running.

Personally I don't think the UK needs any more preserved railways. I spend a lot of my free time visiting preserved lines, and I'm glad that there are so many, but it is difficult to get around them all. One lifetime is scarcely enough. I would prefer to see some of our existing lines achieve their potential. Lines like Peak Rail and the Lynton and Barnstaple. Either of these could become Premier League railways if they achieve their long term aims. Others too, like the Wensleydale line.

 

There is a limited pool of locomotives and rolling stock, assuming that the aim is to create a steam-era railway. Unless we enter a phase of widespread building of replicas, creating more lines will just spread that pool more and we'll just see more mediocre sites. I don't think the "Premier" lines will be unduly affected - they may gladly take the opportunity to offload some of their "no-hopers" but they'll cling onto their good stuff as hard as they can. We're already seeing lines like the Mid Hants and NYMR gradually buying up locos and coaches as they become available, in order to secure their position. So, the source of much of the good stock for expansion will come private owners based on smaller railways that cannot afford to buy up this stock when it comes on the market and there will be competition for good stuff from higher up the food chain. In effect, the new lines will be left with the cast-offs that require the most spending on them, and it really just compounds the uphill struggle they face. Some will do it anyway, though, because their volunteers prefer to be big fish in a small pond but I really cannot see them generating an attraction to anyone much beyond themselves.

 

It doesn't seem to be doing too badly so far. The 1st test will be when public trains are run for the 1st time. (I'm not a member of the Sharpness Railway btw). There are plans for significant housing at the old docks area, which may turn "nowhere" into "somewhere."

 

It could potentially create an opportunity to get some volunteers from the new housing. I'm not sure that a new housing development would actually create a destination though.

And it could turn into a nightmare of objections and/or vandalism.

My earlier point regarding rolling stock, was that Sharpness has been created to the detriment ofthe GWSR, which very much proves the 'limited pool' theory quoted by many.


Keith

 

If anything, as far as I understand it, the reason some items left the GWSR for Sharpness was that there was too much stock (some of it with only long term chances of restoration) rather than not enough. This certainly influenced the 8F Group's decision to depart. They took some interesting items with them too. I must admit to missing the 8F as it was a great stablemate/contrast/comparison to our GWR 2807. I also miss the Class 14 diesel - the GWSR once had 3 of these and they always seemed to suit the Line in my view.

 

to paraphrase, there is no shortage of stock, it's just the big players are hoarding it.... hence exhibition halls full of shiny locos and even locos lent out to other venues for display only (carefully mentioning no names)

 

hello
i think we are coming to the end of the golden era of preservation and will soon start to see a decline there just wont be enough volunteers
there certainly wont be enough engineers or coal or people who remember steam days who want to experiance it
get it while you can !!
regards

 

Some preserved lines are almost private playthings; underwritten by two or three members with deeper pockets, who might open their doors to the public once a week but are unlikely to cover their costs. But they’re happy enough with that, the place will really be more of a train owners club than a preserved railway. Arguably it would be preferable for those couple of better-off individuals invested in an existing line, but I think there’s room for this sort of railway.

The biggest problem for new lines will not be lack of rolling stock, it’ll be lack of volunteers. We’re in an era where the “baby-boomers” have retired early on final-salary pensions having paid off their mortgages and still having some disposable income. Come 20 years time , when I’ll be approaching 60, I expect to face working for another 10 years and being too knackered on retirement to contemplate any activity more strenuous than a trip to the pub!

 

it's not the end of the golden era, it's not even the beginning of the end of the golden era, but it is more or less the end of the beginning of the golden era. (with apologies)

I agree with you, volunteers will get scarce and I think a problem there could be the older a guy gets , the less he is likely to tolerate or relate to younger volunteers (as a generalisation)

 

Some were like that decades ago....

 

That is repeating exactly what Michael Draper said about 25 years ago and look what's happened since!

 

If predicting a demise, that was clearly premature, but was probably well intentioned, as we needed to be recruiting new volunteers 25 years ago to ensure that there are some people around now who aren't too old but have plenty of steam experience. The next 10 years, or so, will be telling. Those who were teenagers at the end of steam will now be comfortably into their 60s, many will still be reasonably fit, mostly retired and have the potential to get involved. Another 10 years and they will mostly be well into their 70s, by which time we will be rather more reliant on 'new blood' who do not remember steam on the mainline. It will be interesting to see how many have actually been recruited over the years to take things forward and whether they have the passion and know-how to continue operations at the current scale.

 

I think many heritage railways are already relying on volunteers who don't remember steam. These volunteers have therefore joined their railway for different reasons than "keeping steam going". Maybe it's more difficult to recruit them, but it can be done. And their motivation to join won't be much different from the next generation of volunteers. So I don't see any fall-off in volunteers due to age specifically.

It is surely the railways' responsibility to pass on the "know-how" to the next generation of volunteers. Many of the restoration or operating skills are unique to heritage railways, so they can't be learnt anywhere else.

 

The process of Natural selection on Heritage Lines takes time to run its course but it does over the years there have been many schemes that have never taken off or come and gone with Rolling stock and other kit moved on.
Unless you have the incredible amount of Cash needed to open a railway on a scale which becomes a tourist attraction in its own right its about Location, being something to do for people going there anyway, or being close to where people are anyway who want something to do.

Sometimes look at the map and see where there aren't any Heritage lines and wonder if one would take off there, west of Manchester and Liverpool for instance

 

As I have said on other threads, the 'early retirement' generation have been some what of a double edged sword - they have provided a large market for potential volunteers, but have perhaps made some railways, or at least sections of them, 'old gentlemen's clubs', which, whether the older volunteers realise it or not, can by their very nature be very off-putting for younger volunteers, who may get involved in their teens and develop a life-long passion for the line. There is still natural wastage at all ages - the youngest discover the opposite sex, get married and have kids but in the end this can boost the volunteer pool! I can instantly think of a couple of families where two generations are active in the world of railway preservation (and probably working on a 3rd!).

I would suggest the majority of both engineers and enginemen already are not ex-BR from the age of steam, although 'elder statemen' do still give vital advice where experience and knowledge is welcomed and appreciated (which is far from everywhere) and some remain very active indeed too!

I have also long said that essential major infrastructure work, especially on bridges or earthworks, could be the end of individual lines. A number of lines have successfully faced such issues - the SVR and GWSR unplanned, others due to planned renewal of life expired structures.

This might give an opening for a new line - basically, if infrastructure issues closes an existing scheme, the people and rolling stock will need a new home and it may be possible that a new project could enable them to relocate - but that assumes a suitable line in a suitable location and converting either an empty but largely intact trackbed or a redundant line into a viable heritage railway is no easy task - quite apart from restoration generally, there is providing engineering and servicing facilities, visitor facilities like car parks, shops and tea rooms and a load of others things which generally build up slowly over years but would need doing 'instantly'.

I don't think this has ever really been done - the nearest might have been the then Dart Valley Railway's purchase of Paignton to Kingswear.

Perhaps the biggest challenge will then be the ageing volunteer workforce and whether they would have the enthusiasm and 'fight' to either tackle the issue on their existing line, or if that is hopeless, start from 'scratch' elsewhere. Either way, this scenario is another encouragement to keep 'younger' people involved, but all too often 'closed shops' of 'the great and the good' at all levels of an organisation can marginalise or outright exclude younger blood of a different generation or background.

One fear I have is that there will be cases where members are encouraged to feel a situation is hopeless and are willing to sell their lines, or a major say in them, to rich investors as 'the only alternative'. This will rarely if ever be truly the case but all too easy to put into peoples' minds over a period of time and will volunteers really put their time into a line which is owned by investors seeking a return?

Steven

 

The Abbey Light Railway was a prime example. When the owner died the line was immediately closed and dismantled.

I can think of one other railway that cannot possibly cover even its steaming costs with the few passengers that it carries, but it carries on anyway. This line is essentially a hobby for some guys who enjoy engineering, and any passenger revenue is a bonus.

 

I have a 5" gauge railway in my garden, but I don't claim it to be a heritage railway, and I doubt if the owner of the Abbey Light Railway would have claimed any more for his line any more than the chap with a 5'3" Finnish pacific would, so they are irrelevant to this discussion. At the bottom end of the scale these lines wax and wane with regularity.