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46233 to York: 10/12/16

Discussion in 'What's Going On' started by LMarsh1987, Dec 9, 2016.

  1. hatherton hall

    hatherton hall Well-Known Member

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    You and your steam team deserve hearty congratulations. Who needs a diesel? No one !!
    upload_2016-12-11_0-5-45.png
     
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  2. MarkinDurham

    MarkinDurham Well-Known Member

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    What a saga this trip has been, looking at it from where I presently am - 8 hours ahead of the UK and a few thousand miles away. I think that a "Well done" is definitely in order for Control, the crews and support organisations (on board and on the ground) for pulling the proverbial rabbit out of the hat with what sounds like a pretty slick return journey. As for the outbound run - well, had the trip got away 'right time' from the Cross, would it still have got caught up in the problems of the morning? The abortive attempt to get over the flyover onto the Hertford loop - well, again, fair play to Control for even contemplating this, in order to keep the job going. The easy option would, of course, have to do nothing but sit and wait, and then no doubt complaints would have been made there too... On another day, it's quite possible that 46233 would have got up and over the flyover. Had she done so, and not incurred the subsequent very late start back from York, would we have seen the run back that we did? Almost certainly not. Again, another easy option for Control, as speculated earlier upthread, might have well been to put the 47 on vice 46233 for the return - and we would have had serious complaints about that too. No, it showed confidence in the locomotive and the crews to allow the run back that actually happened. Good call.
     
  3. GWR4707

    GWR4707 Nat Pres stalwart

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    Call me cynical but NR seem somewhat more willing to help with making up time when the delay minutes could possibly end up with them, yesterday OHLE and routing issues and in the week the 5 clouting something?
     
  4. Enterprise

    Enterprise Part of the furniture

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    I think it's possible to answer Fred's questions. A few years ago a run from York to London in a little over 5 hours would have been considered normal. So was the regained time due to slack timetabling? Mostly, with the proviso that pathing is obviously tighter than it was. Superb enginemanship? Not really, very competent but unexceptional especially as there was a 47 helping. Network Rail staff on the ground taking decisions in the light of the current state of operations? Obviously yes, but that is what they are supposed to do.
     
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2016
  5. Big Al

    Big Al Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Moderator

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    I agree on that point but when you bear in mind we know that Network Rail generally puts charters at the back of the queue, and has always done so, it is good to see the operational staff on the day adopting an even handed approach when they judge that the steam charter can be slotted in. The same thing happened with Tornado over the extended water stop at Grantham on the Robin Hood in August and we know what a fabulous run everyone had as a result.

    I take the view that the more that steam can prove itself on the day, the more confidence that Network Rail will have in giving steam decent paths in the first place. And that will result in better timing for the day and at the destination, more efficient operation of the locomotive and a better overall experience. Of course, we can't hurry to our destination too quickly as that won't give enough time to serve the food, and I'm not joking!

    Let's hope that the trips in 2017 with Tornado at its higher permitted speed are trouble free and bring destinations like York and Scarborough back into a sensibly timed day out from London.
     
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  6. Victor

    Victor Nat Pres stalwart Friend

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    Note post #97 by Keith Morris.
     
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  7. Spamcan81

    Spamcan81 Nat Pres stalwart

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    Don't you Wayne? You certainly write as though you do. By the way, how's the ELR these days?
     
  8. Sheff

    Sheff Resident of Nat Pres

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    I wasn't aware that was a done deal as yet Al?
     
  9. GWR4707

    GWR4707 Nat Pres stalwart

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    Don't ruin it, the A1SLT and LSL are apparently going to solve all the ails of the main line movement.
     
  10. Fred Kerr

    Fred Kerr Resident of Nat Pres Friend

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    It has been noted; my question what also how about how such experiences will influence their future commitment to joining steam-hauled charters.
     
  11. Western Venturer

    Western Venturer Well-Known Member

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    Really glad 46233 got back ok and thanks to slack schedual nearly on time.. I watched it all the way down the ECMl on this ,... https://traksy.uk/live


    Just a thought, but what would people think if NR gave steam a proper schedual, timed for 75 mph or 90 where loco is passed for it and no slack times but with the
    insistance that a diesel be on the back, switched off and only used in emergency??
     
  12. Fred Kerr

    Fred Kerr Resident of Nat Pres Friend

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    Since you can't get my name right I presume this comment was not intended for my consideration.
     
  13. Jamessquared

    Jamessquared Nat Pres stalwart

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    But if you add a diesel on the back, even with the engine switched off, you have added the equivalent of an extra three coaches - with knock on effect on acceleration and hill-climbing ability, and therefore pathing. In other words, adding the diesel "just for insurance" inevitably increase the likelihood that you actually need it, because the load has gone up significantly.

    Tom
     
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  14. Big Al

    Big Al Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Moderator

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    Time for everyone to re-read Joseph Heller's book - Catch 22. ;)
     
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  15. Dobbs0054

    Dobbs0054 Member

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    As ever you view this from your narrow prism of steam charters on the mainline and see then as something different from a normal service. In fact with the open access policy they are just another train on the track that NR have given access to and manage the journey. Lots of trains hit problems and have delays for many many reasons. Your constant whining about steam is looking more like a wish for a self fulfilling prophecy.
     
  16. GWR4707

    GWR4707 Nat Pres stalwart

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    More importantly won't WCRC's 47's get bored and lonely without their regular days out which are obviously not required for operational reasons?
     
  17. Enterprise

    Enterprise Part of the furniture

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    And when it was needed, odds on that it wouldn't fire up or would have some other fault rendering it inoperable.
     
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  18. hatherton hall

    hatherton hall Well-Known Member

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    I think most will agree that, in the event that Tornado hauled steam trains are allowed to run at higher speeds, any thoughts of having a diesel tagged on the back, switched off, is a non-starter. One would hope that NR and train operators would look at the very reliable record of Tornado and have confidence in it running just with coaches and not with a box on the back.
     
  19. Big Al

    Big Al Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Moderator

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    DBC does not run with a diesel so your concern is probably unnecessary.
     
  20. gricerdon

    gricerdon Guest

    Fred. As a fellow writer for Heritage Railway you will know my views on the subject as expressed in my column. For me only pure steam really counts but I have to accept that in today's main line environment taking a DL along is sometimes a necessary evil both for operational purposes and to assist in certain circumstances. What I object to is the DL working when it need not do so. Except by choice I have managed to avoid being on a charter with a DL involved for many years now and I do this by carefully picking my trips. Anything operated by DBC is pretty safe as is anything with VTR plus some repeat itineraries with RTC. I think yesterday was a good example of when a DL is not needed but the decision was compromised by circumstances. There is more on the subject of DL involvement in my column in the HR due out next Thursday 15th but suffice it to say here that for the trip to Weymouth on 12th November with 34046 (AKA 34052) we had a DL on the back and this only helped at a few of the station starts, but not all, and away from a severe line slack at Netley. Between Southampton and Bournemouth where we nearly kept the old 2 hour train schedule with 11 plus the 47 ticking over, that's over 500 tons there was no DL help at all. On the 1-in-100/70 climb out of Fareham in steady rain where you would expect a push 47802 was silent and the Bulleid made this steep winding climb with no fuss.
     

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