Seaford to Horsted Keynes electric service.

Bit of an anorak moment but I have just seen a photo on flikr of a 2Hal pulling in to the up main platform at Haywards Heath with a 37 headcode and the caption stating 'EMU to Horsted Keynes 28/10/62'
Now there is no way he can shunt from there to the middle siding (where the stock berthed between trips) or over to the reversible down local to depart from platform 1. I know there is/was a crossover up line to down line to the south of the station (points 38, if memory serves) but that was right by the tunnel mouth and would seem to be an unusual movement occupying both lines. As I remember it he always came up the local, on into the middle siding then straight shunt across to the down local.
Would any one know if in fact they often shunted across down by the tunnel, or has the signalman put 'im up the wrong hole. It really is bugging me!!


Cheers, Chris Head

 

Chris - as I recall it the whole point of electrifying the Horsted Keynes branch was so that there was then no need to berth the Seaford service in the middle siding, or anywhere else, at Haywards Heath. The reversal at Horsted was intended to alleviate possible congestion at Haywards Heath. Reversal and layover in the middle siding only became the norm once the section to Horsted Keynes had closed in 1963 as the hourly 37 headcode service to Seaford continued for several years after this. If you think about it if the 2HAL is going to Horsted Keynes it has no need of the middle siding to reverse, although I agree that it was more usual for it to use Plat 4 (up Local) than Plat 3 (up Main) (from where it would pass signal CH19 I believe!)

It is good to have an anorak moment every now and again.

Peter James

 

Oh yes!!
I might have missed something but I still cant see how it got to the down local line from the up main though unless reversing to the tunnel.

 

Presumably by way of Seaford! - the service in those days was hourly Seaford - HK and return. No reversal at Haywards Heath involved.

Peter (HH was my local station from 1954 (aged 3) to 1968)

 

Thanks Peter, I was boxboy at HH for 18 months 74/75. Hence the CH19 reference, starter to a lot of adventures.

 

hard to get the head round this without more details, but do you mean "Via HK" rather than Seaford?

 

The picture CH19 refers to sounds as if it shows a Seaford to HK service so no shunting was necessary at HH. After the closure of the HK branch these trains from Seaford terminated at HH and reversed via the siding situated between the Up slow and Up main just north of the station. As he worked there in the 70s I suspect the question arose from a junior Senior Moment. I don't think there was ever a shuttle service between HH and HK rather it was an hourly through service from HK to Seaford.

Peter

 

not what I was talking about. He asked how it got from the Up main to the down local and it was suggested via Seaford. I assume that should mean via HK....continue on the Up Main (and branch) to HK, change ends and return onto the down local.

 

Ok I see what you mean - in the Up direction it would reverse at HK. I read it that he was trying to reverse a train from HK rather than one from Seaford. Either way the train is not needing to reverse at HH in this instance so using Plat 3 rather than Plat 4 is not the problem it would have been in his days there in the 70's.

Peter

 

i'd love to see a few photos of the electric services, never seen many.

 

Any chance of a link?

 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/31890193@N08/12411621723/in/photostream/ hope this works.
The point I was trying make was that from the up main there is no 'link' to the branch, so from the position in the photo he would have to reverse to the tunnel to cross to the down line and then proceed north up the down line to access platform 1 (down local, reversible) to access the branch as at the date of the photo shows he still went to HK, seems to me to be an odd shunting move, when from the up local he could access the middle siding as I mentioned upthread. Whichever way it was done it still meant a reversal at Haywards Heath!!

 

Chris - the photo shows one of the hourly Seaford - Horsted Keynes trains. It will go forward on the Up Fast to Copyhold Junction where it will branch off onto the Up Grinsted line to Ardingly and then onto the by then singled line to Plat 1 at HK where it terminates and reverses. Simples, as they say! Copyhold was a far more flexible junction in 1962 than it was a decade later and with an hourly service on the branch it needed to be. And in those days the Down Local was not reversable as it did not need to be. I think you are looking at this through 1970 eyes by which time things had changed significantly from the date of the picture.

Have to say that the picture takes me back to my youth - happy days despite the fact that there were so few steam services by then. I guess I had a pretty deprived childhood!

Peter

 

Peter, thanks for that, I did not realise there was a further crossover/junction at Copyhold back in the day.
Living so close to the mainline my first steam sighting was at the Bluebell, Birch Grove IIRC

Chris Head

 

Chris - I have just googled Copyhold Junction and found some excellent pictures of the layout of the Junction in the early 60's which will give you a good idea of the set up then. And guess what - they are all taken by the same guy who took the picture of the 2HAL at HH that sparked off your quiery in the first place. I have to say that his flickr site is a real find for someone like me who grew up at that time and missed 99% of what was going on simply because I did not have any railway contacts back then. Thanks for putting me onto it.

Peter

 

Brilliant, just visited the flickr site and the first picture I saw was 488 and 473 hauling a train from the up local over the main and across to the branch at Copyhold. Query well and truly answered, thank you.

Chris