L&Y class 27 no 1300

Who cares? It's working in an authentic livery from it's long history. Good enough for me!

 

I care mainly because it means there is now (since a few years ago she went into LMS livery) no working loco in LYR livery, which is a great shame. Especially running on an ex-LYR line. Nothing wrong with this loco or any other in BR black.
My argument is along the lines of the Emperor Charles V, who, on seeing the cathedral built inside the great mosque of Cordoba, said something along the lines of "you have built something you could have built anywhere, but in doing it here you have spoiled something which was unique in all the world".

 

Rather than bemoaning the livery of this operational privately owned engine, why not ask the question why aren't the other 6 lyr engines working.

 

If the owner did not want his locomotives in BR livery then he would not allow the ELR to paint into BR livery.

 

6? I count 2 Pugs, 2 Barton Wrights (758 &957) and the Radial. Have I missed one? I do, however share your sentiments!
Cheers,
Ray.

 

Locomotives have a 10 year operating life between overhauls (with a bit of luck) and it seems sensible to me to let them appear during that time in all of the authentic liveries they would have carried. Hauling a set of Mk1s any loco can only look totally realistic in BR livery. Hopefully one of the charter organisers can do something with the Lanky 0-6-0 in the near future.

 

Narrow gauge Wren at York.

 

I was counting wren. It is after all in a shiny horwich livery.

 

Footage of the loco from Friday and today (plus a bonus shot of City of Wells at the end today)...

 

Thanks for posting and thus reminding me why, along with Llangollen and the North Norfolk, the East Lancs is at the top of my list of heritage lines I must visit one of these days (but haven't done so as yet).

 

I like this in any of its three liveries, L & Y, LMS and BR. One thing, would any of these locos have hauled Mark 1s in BR days with any regularity? They were almost always used on freight and at the time they were running for BR Mark 1s would be the front line express stock, any passenger turns A Class 0-6-0s did get would, presumably, be ex LMS vehicles?

 

Almost certainly they wouldn't have run with Mark 1s. But you can't bring that up, it undermines one of the default arguments of the BR livery brigade... I wonder if BR black was ever shiny on an aged goods loco, either.
If course they were effectively mixed traffic locos on the LYR (did the term exist back then?) and given the passenger livery. But LMS and BR painted them plain goods black.

 

Of course the paint would be shiny if it was recently applied, which in this case it was last week...

 

What? They should have ordered the *dull* BR black paint from the supplier, not the shiny version. That's what they used in the good old days.

These livery "discussions" get more ridiculous each time. A loco is returned to steam at the owner's considerable expense, yet some people can find 20 reasons why it's not in the *correct* colour and try to find someone to blame for this. Paint can be changed. It won't always be that colour. Can't we just celebrate the work that's been done??

 

Think you mean the bad old days... For this loco the good old days were pre-WW1!
I certainly celebrate this loco being in steam - a splendid loco and seemingly a hardworking and devoted owner.
I just thought it a pity that the constant and insatiable demand for BR liveries on every loco means we don't have a working showcase for Horwich livery - showing the real good old days.

 

Nearly 50 years after the end of regular BR standard gauge steam, There will inevitably have to be compromises. Different owners/railways opt for different compromises. The main reason is that many lines which were not already collecting stock prior to 1968 suffer from a lack of pre-nationalisation coaches. Go back to the Bluebell of the 1960s (or even early 1970s) and the idea of running Mark 1 corridor stock would have been dismissed out of hand, especially as such carriages were not available at the time - still being used on some fast trains well into the 1980s. Apart from No.75027, where there was no choice, there was no enthusiasm for BR-liveried locos at the Bluebell in those days. It wasn't by any means a 100% accurate recreation of the pre-grouping scene, but that was the preferred era of the early preservation pioneers and they had appropriate locos AND carriages - although some SR-built carriages were used right from the start.

On the other hand, the second and third generation heritage lines like the ELR , which didn't really get off the ground until the late 1970s or later had little choice but to buy Mk 1s which, by then, were being made redundant in large numbers. It's true that an engine like 12322/52322 would have been highly unlikely to have ever hauled a train of such coaches in BR days - indeed, even 80097, soon to be returned to working order, would have spent far more time hauling non-corridor stock during its BR career - but with BR liveried locos and Mk 1 stock, you do end up with a vaguely cohesive 1950s/60s look, even though it's not really that authentic. The alternative can be a bit of a mish-mash. Take the Bluebell's H Class hauling the "Wealden Rambler" blood & custard Mk 1s. This combination does present rather an odd spectacle, even though I wouldn't deny that, like the L&Y livery, the SE&CR livery worn by No. 263 is very attractive compared with the BR black it would have worn at the end of its life. Of course, such odd combinations matter not one iota if you're just sitting inside the train enjoying the sound of the engine. Photographers (And yes, I admit I come into this category!) are much fussier. What about the average customer? Does Joe Public think it odd to see "British Railways" on the carriages when the engine up front is painted in the livery of a pre-grouping railway company? I honestly don't know the answer.

It is good that there is a growing interest in restoring old coach bodies and in pre-BR stock in general. One has to say that even a Mk 1 is a great improvement on the soul-less interiors of most modern carriages, but older carriages beat a Mk 1 any day. Perhaps there will be more chance to see complete pre-nationalisation trains on increasing numbers of lines in due course, although some (notably the GWSR) do not, to my knowledge, intend to go down this route. Even so, there will always be an element of compromise, although on some lines, the element will be greater than others (Take the Isle of Wight line, where if you;ve got the O2 and a Terrier, it's a pretty good recreation of the island rail scene.) Furthermore, there will never be a consensus about what the best compromise is. No doubt if Nat Pres is still going in 10 years' time, we'll still be having these debates!

 

Hold on, If using a loco in BR livery Hauling Mk1's is wrong because they were unlikely to have worked much together, then surely Mk1's with loco's in Big Four or Pre Grouping liveries is even wronger ?, Fact is Mk1's are the only available stock on many lines still and we are stuck with that fact.

Personally I'd have preferred it to have had more than 5 minutes in that lovely LMS black, coupled with a visit to a line with some LMS stock, but authentic pre 1923 trains are still the hardest to recreate due to the scarcity of corerect loco's and stock and BR era much easier by comparison, Though luckily Big Four is starting to become more common as more suitable coaches are restored to working order.

Personally I don't mind earlier liveries, but find the effect is somewhat ruined if they are coupled to say a blue n grey MK2, whereas say an LMS Jinty coupled to 3 P3's or similar works.

 

Very well put - entirely agree. It is all a compromise, so let's have some give-and-take. I didn't mean to be as militant as I seem to have come across. I just don't want to see only BR liveries on locos which could be representing other periods in railway history. And looking more handsome in the bargin!
I too love to photograph steam locos - but I don't try to pretend they are anything other than 2017 photos, so I don't mind "inauthentic" combinations of locos and stock, unless ghastly clashing - they are authentic for 2017, and thank goodness we have them.

The point is that almost no train is authentic with a pre-grouping loco (or as you say, Mk 1s with most locos), the BR loco and coach livery combination may be "right" in an of itself, but the coaches and loco probably aren't, the lineside and stations probably aren't, unless you're using Kodachrome the photo doesn't look in period anyway, etc.
However, I think I have had more than enough hobby-horsing, and drifted far away from the topic of this wonderful loco, into familiar livery territory which has no conclusion.

So let's get back to 1300/12322/52322 - long may she flourish in whatever outfit.
Floreat Horvicia! (Or whatever the pig latin for Horwich would be...)

 

Not true about Kodachrome, the Nik plugin software for PS can replicate the effect of virtually all the popular films with the click of a mouse

 

Nobody else noticed that the BR repaint coincides with the Lostok Hall theme gala in a couple of weeks then?