Diesel Brake Tender

I heard locomen did not like propelling them and that, at one point, actually refused to do so. Also that they were pretty unpopular as they caused extra shunting. Good idea to recreate one though, never saw one, don't recollect any in the North West at all

 

I don't buy the extra shunting bit, for the reasons given in an earlier post, with photos.

 

They were well used on mineral traffic in the NE Region, both propelled and towed. There are plenty of photos around showing them in action with Sulzer Type 2s, EE Type 3s and even Claytons as the motive power.

 

yes, in just the same way as a steam loco pulled or propelled it's tender.

 

I can't see the point in building a replica of a 'Saint', particularly when it involves the demise of a 'Hall' which is a class that the GWR developed from the 'Saint' obviously because the 'Hall' was a better engine. But it's not my money.

As far as the DBT is concerned I think it was a case of, a Mk.1 carriage (15208) was being broken up for parts, the chassis was going to be scrapped and someone said 'why not do this with it'. And indeed, why not?

It also means that we will be able to recreate this photo: http://www.rail-online.co.uk/p548073085/h4800f774#h4800f774.

 

Your perception of what a Saint and a Hall were built to do is awry. It's not a case of one being better than the other.

 

The Hall was a derivative of the Saint, with smaller wheels, for a mixed traffic role. Both good locos

 

yes the Hall was a hybrid, for pure Churchward you had to wait a while for the Grange to be built. Churchward's famous composite diagram detailed a 5'8" 4-6-0 but it was the Hall that got built instead. Won't be long before the Saint and the Grange are back with us

 

No I'm saying it was a waste of fuel back in the day, the new equivalent doesn't need the concrete. What I was saying is why would anyone want to spend good money recreating something that made BR even more of a laughing stock than it already was at the time.

 

The new Saint is filling an important gap in the GWR loco history, we already have plenty of Halls to go round

 

It's going to need some weight in there though, as regards spending money on something that made BR a laughing stock, why bother restoring a 9F that cost a fortune (at the time) to build and then only had a working life of at best 5 years. At the end of the day you can't stop people spending their money on what they want. To someone like yourself John it might show the worst of times on our railway, to me it's rather fascinating, just because it shows a time when our railways were at a bit of a crossroads dosn't mean it should be brushed under the carpet. I'm guessing the APT's at Crewe and Shildon would have the gas axe taken to them if you had your way?

 

People can spend their money on what they like and the 9F was probably the most successful of the Standard classes, the short working life was down to some crass decisions by BR with its rush to dieselisation with untried and unreliable replacements. As for the APT, as a costly failure are they worthy of preservation? I don't know but they hold no interest for me.

 

I'm sure the operating department that was having trouble stopping unfitted steam age freights with new diesels designed for fitted trains would beg to differ.

 

Did no one think of a fitted head of revenue earning vehicles, I well remember this pathetic time in railway history when it was all cutbacks and no positive attitude at all

 

I suspect without the ballast, you'd need to do a redesign on the brakes to avoid locking the wheels up easily. Whereas I'd take a guess that, when set against the weight of a whole train, loading up with 20-odd tons of extra ballast would make an almost negligible impact on the fuel usage.

Tom

 

If I'm honest APT does little for me but the legacy of what BR started in the eighties continues in the Pendilino's that work today. The brake tender is something that is a reminder of the short sightedness of building hundreds of short wheelbase wagons without continuous brakes. We might always think the sun always shone in the past but there was a fair few rainy days too!

 

At one time a lot of the 16T coal wagons were fitted with vac brakes, but it got damaged when been used on the coal hoist for loading ships so they had to be removed form these wagons.

 

What happens when the train gets to Leicester, Quorn or Rothley and there isn't the time or siding space to do the shunt?