LSWR T3 563

I'm not sure that 35B's view is the minority one.

Though I suspect that even a 99 year loan would have placated a lot of the long term concerns while giving the Swanage Railway a free hand.

 

LSWR stock isn't rare; it's just that there is no group actively restoring what is out there.

Tom

 

My last word-promise!

I'd like this to be a good news story, but the information does not exist to prove either good or bad news. The NRM's previous actions do not give confidence, and the lack of information is a missed opportunity.


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personally I think it's the start of an exciting phase of our hobby. How many people have wanted this loco or that returned to steam? Here's the opportunity of at least a few locos to move from Museum to Heritage Railway and I think, so long as it's managed properly this can be a good thing.

I trust the NRM to do it right, I think it's probably something they don't particularly want to do but circumstances are forcing their hand

 

Having seen the T3 in the King's Cross version of The Railway Children in 2015, I must confess I had a hankering for seeing the T3 with an oily rag in the chimney, sitting quietly in an authentic setting.

I'm LNER through and through as you know, but the T3 is simply one of the most beautiful steam locomotives ever built in this country. Totally fell in love with it when I saw it in the play.

I have mixed feelings about the locomotive moving out of public hands - but maybe this is an opportunity for those of us who want to support a locomotive we feel passionately about more directly than as taxpayers. Consider that there's many different ways of developing funds for the locomotive to be looked after.

And for the record - it has to be LSWR livery. There's not enough pre-grouping liveries on locomotives in steam, far too many BR (though accepted, it's normally the most appropriate livery for the physical form of the locomotive).

 

I am sure most will want to see this loco fully restored and running, I doubt I will get to see it however.
But, although the Swanage seems to have a few projects in the pipeline - and not yet funded I believe - the interest and comments about T3 563 here and elsewhere might just allow the loco to jump the queue.

 

So Great Northern and Southern Railway livery it is then.

 

Agree, I like Southern green, the pre war version with the large tender numerals

 

what's that got to do with an exciting new phase?

 

To try to move on rather than going round in circles, two things on which I am sure everyone will agree:- firstly, the restoration of the T3 to working order, assuming it will happen, ought to be a lot less complicated than the task faced by SLL with Sidmouth, whose frames were on show at Corfe Castle last weekend.

Secondly, there is no question that No. 563 will prove a capable engine and if required to, would be easily able to cope with 5 or even 6 coaches on the not inconsequential gradients of the Swanage Railway. I read a remarkable account of X2 No. 595, the 7' 1" equivalent of the T3, stepping in at short notice to haul the Atlantic Coast Express in the 1930s. The rostered engine failed at Woking and nothing else was available except the station pilot and it was not in the best condition either! Anyway. No 595 managed to get its 13-coach train (presumably Maunsell corridor stock) on the move without slipping, surmounted Milepost 31 at 28mph and was performing so well that the crew decided to take her all the way to Salisbury rather than handing over to something a bit less antiquated at Basingstoke. Obviously, for an elderly 4-4-0, taking a train of this length up the bank to Grateley was going to be a challenge, but they managed to work her up to 74mph on the dip through Andover, which provided suffiicient momentum for the climb ahead - although only just. The writer thinks that 595 had developed hot bearings by the time it reached Salisbury and possibly never ran in service again, but what a way for an elderly express loco to bow out!

563 won't have to perform feats like this, but given 30053, only 12 years its junior and with very similar tractive effort, can handle normal services at Swanage without any problems, 563 should not have any worries working the trains either.

I'm inclined to agree with you on this. As a rule, I do like to see authentic looking trains and an LSWR-liveried engine hauling 5 green Mk 1s doesn't exactly fit the bill, but with such an elegant engine, I think one needs to make an exception. When GNR 1, the Stirling Single, was restored to working order and ran at the Great Central in 1982, no one complained that it was coupled to a train of Mk 1 stock and didn't look like an authentic period train. Everyone I spoke to at the time was just thankful to enjoy this marvellous veteran in steam.

 

i don't really share your optimism about the restoration. As a loco due for withdrawal in 1939, but kept on for the duration and taken out of service again just as soon as they could after, I suspect it's going to be in a bit of a state. I'd suspect it will form the centrepiece of a display for many years to come. Job One will be sorting out proper accommodation for it I suspect.

 

If you haven't already done so, you might find the tractive effort to adhesion ratio on those gradients quite revealing. (Hint: think Schools class ...)

Tom

 

Worth pointing out that the secure accommodation was put in place first ...

Tom

 

I wasn't saying it was gong to be in tip-top condition. See JMA1009's post#215. There is no evidence that Eastleigh Works did anything more than a cosmetic job on it in 1948, unlike the rumours about Swindon's work on either 4003 or 4073 (can't remember which) which, by all accounts, went a lot further than one would have expected for a loco which was merely to be stuffed and mounted. Even so, and allowing for it not having had much attention after 1939 (and at the moment, we have no idea whether this was the case), the point I was making was that six years of minimal maintenance followed by three years sitting in a scrap line, a cosmetic restoration and almost 70 years in the NRM's care is still likely to result in a less beat-up loco than an engine left to rust away for about 18 years during which time various parts were removed for spares for other locos. Maybe Sidmouth wasn't the best comparison, given the boilers of many of the Barry Bulleids weren't in too bad state, but if I were a betting man, I would be pretty confident that 563 would be an easier restoration task than, say 4253, which was one of the roughest engines in Barry, but is now well on its way to a new lease of life at Rolvenden.

 

the point I was aiming at (and missed) is that this loco is likely to be in poor condition, cosmetically restored. Therefore a period of time without a roof is unlikely to do harm to much more than the paint. It would be a great shame to see it deteriorate but not irreversible.

 

Agree, it will be a much easier restoration than an ex Barry loco, speaking as one who did some work on 45337. It will, at least be complete which is a big bonus.

 

I resume your referring to the Bluebell and their LSWR carriages too, correct? I know one was restored some years ago, but that's about it from what I know.

Point noted, but we can't all have the space available nor the luxury of planning so far ahead to have shed built for an engine (though which unlike your's is actually complete). Or indeed the resources the Bluebell enjoys.

I would think you and others might be keen to see the T3 restored, it would look great on your rakes when visiting. Plus it should help raise awareness and support for certain other LSWR engine that it shares alot of resemblance with on the Bluebell, that being the Adams Tank. I have to imagine that out of all the engine out of service in their collection, 488 must surely be one of if not the most desired to see restored to working order, costs and practicality aside.