LSWR T3 563

I'm sure that they can but they seem to show no willingness to do so. Several other locos at York have also long lost their exhibition finish but no effort is being made to rectify this. The paint shop is largely used as a storage facility. I hasten to add that this is an observation not a criticism. I know that their hands are tied and that they have other priorities in formulating the museums future.

Peter James

 

I suppose another issue, if the NRM is strapped for cash, is why the loco was gifted as opposed to being sold .

It has a scrap value of course, which would not be inconsequential, but has a far greater value as a complete example of Adam's finest work. Some of would argue that the value of such a unique surviving loco is priceless. If, by comparison, it were a listed building it would certailnly be grade 1 listed.

I dont know how the NRM accountants deal with such issues.

When the IOWSR acquired the sole surviving LBSCR E1, it had to pay for it!

And it is undercover in 'Train Story' at Havenstreet which is a purpose built facility to house the IOWSR's collection.

The Swanage has no such museum facility at the present time.

Stuffing the loco in the back of the carriage shed at Swanage can hardly compare with the way the loco was looked after and publically displayed at Clapham and York and latterly Shildon for most of the last 65 years or so.

Cheers,
Julian

 

Still going on about this I see... You know I'm sure it wouldn't be too much to ask to give the Swanage Railway the benefit of the doubt, would it not? (Unless there's something they did you have a grudge about, Julian?)

This is just getting ridiculous now, how many more comments can be done on something that's already be talked about near on to death?

Let it be, till some NEW news come along about this matter, is that not the sensible course of action? Or maybe that's wishful thinking...

 

It is not owned by the NRM. The coach is Great North of Scotland Railway No.34 and part of the Stately Trains collection on the Embasy & Bolton Abbey Steam Railway: http://www.embsayboltonabbeyrailway.org.uk/oldsite/vintaget.html

 

Well, if you care enough to want to campaign against this move, the sensible course of action is to do so before the physical transfer takes place and its a fait accompli.

 

This is the nub of the matter for me. There appears to be no statutory protection for historical railway artefacts, unless they are buildings (in which case they can be listed).

If there was a way of applying protected status to locomotives and rolling stock then the question of ownership would not matter to the same extent. Protected status could be applied to any item of preserved (or operational) rolling stock, not just the national collection, and there are many privately preserved vehicles that deserve such a status.

 

This applies to other moveable items/vehicles too - there has been an attempt to create a sort of national ship collection but sadly several unique historic ships have been lost in recent years.

 

Just to be clear, (as it was a while since I posted) no one wants to give me their loco?

 

I'm not so sure you've been keeping up with my comments in the past, for I think you'll find that I actually WANT this to happen, I see it as a much better option for 563 in the long run despite those who think otherwise.

Of course if you were not speaking of me but of others in general, then really isn't it too late to do anything? Pretty sure bemoaning about it on this forum wouldn't help...

 

Buildings can be de-listed if they no longer have historical significance etc.

 

And indeed they can be knocked down if they "get in the way", like the beautiful row of shops opposite (and contemporaneous with) Farringdon station was.

 

Hi JMR 1000,

I can assure you I have no personal axe to grind re the Swanage.

There seem to me to be two issues other than how the NRM has behaved.

If the loco is to remain stuffed and mounted, as it has done in good conditions for most of the last 65 years or so, can the Swanage do this, also with the sort of public access this loco has had, and in conditions that do not allow it to deteriorate.

Shoving it into a carriage shed in my view does not meet this criteria.

If the loco is to overhauled and thereby taken to pieces for a return to steam then arguably the above considerations do not apply and a new agenda arises. As stated previously, and from well known examples of the Adams O2 W24 Calbourne and Adams 488 Radial tank on the Bluebell we are talking about very major expensive work on the boiler on a loco of this vintage.

We have no evidence whatsoever what the Swanage will do with this very important surviving Adams loco.

It could be taken to bits and left in pieces when they realise, as did the Bluebell with the Radial tank, they do not have the money for a new boiler. Thankfully on the Bluebell they knew this state of affairs and the loco was not taken to bits and can be viewed on display at Sheffield Park undercover.

The Swanage could create a new museum for the loco under cover with public access, as has been enjoyed with the loco for most of the last 55 years or so since Clapham. But where and how? The Swanage has no such museum currently for such a loco. There are no publicised projects to create such a suitable museum.

Hence our genuine concerns expressed over 19 pages of posts.

I say let the loco go back to Shildon or York undercover in museum conditions until the Swanage have a proper plan to conserve and protect this most beautiful example of 19thC locomotive design and engineering!

Cheers,
Julian

 

I'll concede putting it into the back of the carriage shed wouldn't be the best option no, but it would at least be good for the short term. For while the SR has many projects it's dealing with at the moment, the sheer uniqueness and striking looks of 563 would go some way to allowing them to launch a campaign for it with good success, as I beleive many would back support for it. Whether this be for static display or not, hard to say, though I think restoration to working order would have stronger appeal.

I think it would be foolish for anyone to think repairing a vintage loco is a quick and/or cheap job to do, and I don't view Swanage as being that. Fact is while they might not know the full extent of it's issues, they must have a rough idea that it'll be pricey first time round, no matter how you look at it. That dosen't make it impoosible to do however. The work they've done so far to a once considered no hoper in the N Class loco is testament to this.

That can be said to be true yes, though I think the problem we have on this thread is people such as yourself are immediately assuming the worst. You equally have no evidence to suggest the Swanage WON'T do something. One must give a little faith once a while...

Well as suggested before, having 563 presence could be the kick starter for the SR to finally address this problem, so both the railway and loco could greatly benefit all round from this.

I have no objection to that idea actually Julian, but surely even you can see that won't really be happening, for if anything has been made clear at this point, it's that the NRM do not want 563 anymore... They have stated their gifted it to the Swanage Railway, and with the speed they've done it, I seriously doubt they'll be much willing to store it at either place. Sad truth is Julian, your (and our) National Railway Museum does not care for your beautiful example of 19th century locomotive design and engineering...!

At this point, with the total disregard they've shown for the engine or any of our concerns, surely you would want 563 as far away from them as possible! I certainly do at this point...

You don't give a baby back to a mother that clearly abandoned it for having no interest in having it or the responsibilities involved anymore...

 

Short term, the engine may have to be displayed out in the open, but thats not to say it won't be looked after, indeed with people who will want to ensure its kept looking pristine it may even be better off than lefft somewhere under the NRM and ignored, the fact is the NRM have decided it's surplus to museum needs, and have gifted it to the Swanage Railway, it will not be going anywhere, other than where the new owner decided it will. given the rarity of an genuine LSWR loco, an possible appeal to repair it i think stands a very good chance, if such a steam 563 appeal was launched, i think it may suceed, if it needs very extensive boiler work, at least its still possible , its future has to be as a working engine, the Swanage does not at present have the luxury of a museum piece, but lets wait for a detailed servey ofthe loco and the costs involved before writing it off.
I can understand the anger at the NRM/ Science Museum for their actions, but that is not the fault of the Swanage Railway .

 

where is this Swanage Railway carriage shed that is spoken of?

It is entirely possible to erect a temporary structure to protect 563 from the weather. If this has the air blowing through it, it could be better than a damp goods shed or the like.

Hands on heart, how many of us had often thought of 563 before it's showbiz career launched it into centre space? It wasn't the most prominent loco in the collection and this way it becomes a celebrity.

 

Perhaps we are all missing a trick here. As a star of the Railway Children production could the show be put on somwehere near the railway at Corfe, Norden etc with a steam ride from Swanage. Under cover storage and additional income all in one.. I really should not drink wine before noon as it gives me strange ideas...

 

Moses?

 

I'd love to see the D sent to the bluebell and the NER 4-4-0 sent to the NYMR...

 

Let's give them all away. Here's my starter for 10:

Aerolite - Aln Valley Railway
1463 - Stainmore Railway
910 - NYMR
1621 - Wensleydale Railway
26501 - North Tyneside Railway
1275 - Weardale Railway

Can't say fairer than that. Who needs a National Collection anyway?