46233 - The Forester - 04/06/17

The returning Derby-Ealing Broadway charter 46233 in some stunning evening light at Sileby

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On the fast at Loughborough, going well !

 

Tanker cock ups and the Duchess seem to go hand in hand, Didn't she have HOT water from one some years back ?.

 

Could be. It railway publications like old Trains Illustrated they distinguished between the direction of said train by a capital letter. So the Newcastle to Kings Cross, for example, would be referred to as the Up.......... and the northbound trip, Down.

That said, even Trains Illustrated and other magazines to this day often get it wrong and does cause confusion!!!

 

You would think that railway men would appreciate and understand the traditions of the railways. I have always understood UP to London and DOWN from it.

 

Yes but how about say Leeds to Manchester? You need some rules for transverse flows which then mean you have trains leaving a junction station in the same direction some of which are up and some down, which makes such terms useless at such places.

 

Indeed. But having worked on the Western Region, I could have be standing on Cheltenham Malvern Road station waiting for an Up train to Paddington or a down train to Bristol and yet both trains head off in the same direction and from the same platform. As a former signalman, it does raise the question of whether the southbound department is on the Up mainline or the down mainline. At Taunton it was not an issue as all northbound trains were up trains and southbound down trains. Simple.

 

Trent Station ( Between Nottingham and Derby )was the place to be for confusion, trains left in both directions for St Pancras.

 

But the Midland always went "up" to Derby, didn't it?

 

No,up to London, still the same.

 

I think you will find that London or a north south axis has nothing to do with it. It is the zero milepost that dictates the direction defination - always Up towards zero and Down away from it. Not all railways go to Lonon , nor run north/south.

Peter James

 

I really wasn't interested in seeing this, but after looking at the times, and noticing the fast line pathing through Loughborough, there was a possible chance of something fast & golden ! Luck was definitely on my side ! Hope you enjoy.

 

The Duchess approaching the M1 at Sawley on the return yesterday:

 

(Way off thread, for which apologies, but).....so here, perhaps, is an acid test of the validity of this principle. Just how would you define, say, a southbound Chiltern Railways service concluding its journey into London from either the Aylesbury line or the High Wycombe route. It passes Neasden South Junction (200m 66c) and runs into Marylebone station (205m 74c or thereabouts), so the milepost parameter would surely make this a "Down" service?? And vice-versa, a Marylebone departure is definitely heading in the direction of MP 0, and passes a descending series of quarter mile-posts that perpetuate GC mileages, at least for the first few miles. So surely it would be right to define this as an "Up" service??

OK, so it may have been 50 years and 9 months since any train running into Marylebone over this last part of the route originated at MP 0 , or any departure ended up there, but I would be interested to learn of any definitive views about this particular situation.

In the meantime, I suppose I really do need to think about getting out a bit more!!

 

No. They could leave in two directions for Derby. South (ie. "Up") then swinging west to where they would join the main line from Leicester (just before the current Sheet Stores Junction) and become "down" trains. Alternatively, leave north and swing west (now closed) onto the original Midland Counties direct chord for Nottingham to Derby traffic, joining the Leicester-Derby line just east of the current Long Eaton (formerly Sawley Junction) Station.

It did until the London extension was built then the entire main lines to the north were recalculated from St. Pancras and it became "Up" to London. However, Bristol-Birmingham-Derby remained "Up" to Derby. Thus one can still travel "up" from Birmingham to Stenson Junction, turn right to Sheet Stores Junction, trail into the MML and continue "up" to London, just as one would leaving New Street on the LNWR lines and running direct to Euston. (Not everyone knows that).

 

Anyone know what time it arrived back please?

Dave

 

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