Best new build?

Can't think why, but the word 'Leader' has suddenly come to mind.

 

Why do some decide to go for the most complicated new build? to me the first point of any new build has to be usability, many of the designs such as a compound in the UK were dead end designs, its clear that simple 2 cylinder designs were the most practical from an 0-6-0 to the massive 9f, Most were 2 cylinder engines.
So to me the best new build has to be an 2 Cylinder 0-6-0 of about 4 class, pre grouping in outline either GWR, LNER, or Southern, either saturated, or superheated boiler,
a batch build of common parts such as cylinder blocks, boilers, wheels bearings etc with everything else being done to each new build to make a replica of what ever class you try to bring back from the dead.

 

Could there be enough ancillary equipment to do the job?. If you have the valve chest and motion for the inside cylinder outside the frames, off set the cylinder if possible, have all the brake cylinders, lubricators, injectors and everything else you can on that side might it get within a reasonable distance of balanced? If you had a splice type frame like Holcroft's Southern ones could you have the actual cylinder projecting part way through the frames, and the crank position on the axle only limited by where the bearing surfaces need to be? Something like this?

 

I suppose that the question is in need of a little clarification. "New Build" as in the building of a new design or as in the creation of a class/design that is not represented in the ranks of preservation?

If you are wanting to create the next member of a design long since vanished that is one thing. If on the other hand you want to build a totally new design in order to preserve steam on the mainline on the grounds that you view existing types as lacking on the modern network or just desire to build a truely outstanding design incorporating every development possible for the sake of doing it, for the challenge, or simply because it has never been done, that is another matter.

Well in part. There is common ground. You need to finance either. The various groups engaged in projects in the U.K. have by and large, raised funding by means of donations or sponsorships. No one, as yet, as an individual has funded a new build. As things stand you might be able to raise funding in order to create a design that people miss or believe to be deserving of recreation. If you want to produce a true new build then you are very much on your own.

The two cylinder compound is very much LDP's idea of what to build as a fair improvement on what has existed, in the main, to date.

New Build or New Build, you pay your money (or not) having made your choice.

 

And the 5AT project showed that, at present, there is no enthusiasm for such a new build.


Keith

 

But it only needs one person with the necessary resources.

 

Yes, and with 65 million people in the UK, it's amazing he hasn't turned up yet!

 

Another proposal for a better newbuild is the crazy LSWR T7.
Mr Urie considered doing something with it but did not.
Could easily be UKs best and most economical 4-4-0 for running max 75 mph.

 

Not really. How many of these 65 and more million people are actually interested? You would be forgiven for thinking on this basis that there are 65 million volunteers available to the railway preservation movement. When you look closely at locomotive ownership how many of these 65 million own a locomotive? How many of these owners are truly wealthy? The chance of someone being wealthy enough and interested enough is very small indeed. Interested and knowledgeable to say nothing about being in possession of sufficient resources. Difficult. There are a few that are knowledgeable enough but it is only a few. And it is hard to get people involved in spreading the knowledge base. There are very few takers in real terms.

You know how hard it is to keep the LMS forum alive.

Back in the days of album sales one group on achieving a million units sold went on to observe that though they had done well the reality was that some 50 odd million people did not give a **** about what they were doing.

 

Absolutely fair point, and I did think of it before posting. But the number of railway enthusiasts in Britain is still in seven figures, but they aren't beating down the doors to contribute to 5AT project.

I feel that one of the 5AT's major drawbacks is that the loco has no history. This of course is also true of the other new builds, but they can borrow one from their predecessors. The 5AT is literally starting from scratch.

 

Francis Rossi - Status Quo.

Richard.

 

Well done. I owe you a pint.

 

The problem is that people only like what they know. It gives them a sense of security, of belonging. If what you know is far from complete but works for you in a satisfactory manner there appears to be no good reason to question it. It works, I understand it, no need to ask more. Going on from this various beliefs come into play.

Some adhere rigidly to the view that no locomotive development carried out beyond these shores had any real merit. Others,equally rigidly, believe that steam as they understand it has peaked in terms of development. There might be some evidence to the contrary but it makes things complicated - so stick with what you know, it is comfortable. And how can a man that I have never heard of have known more than my (almost blindly worshipped) Bulleid, Collett, Churchward, Gresley, Ivatt, Riddles etc. etc. - insert hero of choice. You can continue along this theme ad nauseam, you can no doubt carry on your own development.

On the subject of the LMS forum, it appears to be pretty well moribund now, which is unfortunate. I read that you tried, pretty well single handedly, to keep things going. But I am sure that I am not alone in being grateful for the knowledge you post here on NP. That reads like a bit of a "creep" but I am sincere. Normal style will be resumed pronto.

 

The attraction of operating steam locomotives is essentially a heritage one. If you want an cost-effective, efficient way to move from A to B you don't do it with a steam locomotive, however advanced. If you want a heritage experience, you don't do it with a machine that has no visual or mechanical connection to a historic machine. However much one might have an engineering curiosity about pushing the potential limits of a steam locomotive, it fundamentally misreads the market for both steam locomotives and rail transport in general; a solution to a non-existent problem.

Tom

 

That is exactly why I propose an asymmetrical two cylinder compound.From one side You can show kids a normal british inside 4-4-0 and the other a potential world beater that never really made it .Two pieces of heritage theater set pieces from the labor and love of supporters.

 

Thank you. We all try to do our bit to add to the knowledge base. There is a lot of such knowledge here, yourself included, and it would be a shame were it all lost when we 'retire'.

A pity about the LMS Forum. It was seriously ill for some time and no amount of artificial respiration could keep it alive!

 

Well, I think the only chance this particular new build project, or ones of similar ilk, will get any traction is when all people with any contemporary knowledge of steam locomotives are 'retired'! The Tornado new build is a wonderful achievement for many reasons, but I 100% doubt it would have got off the ground or been such a continuing success if it was a Frankenstein.

I second the motion of thanks to all the knowledgeable contributors too.

 

Granted that encapsulates the views of many, but it's not universal. Discussions in other threads have indicated that many of the customers for main line steam don't much care which steam. The essence of the 5AT project was to produce something for that market, similar in general appearance to the kinds of steam locomotives that we're familiar with, going "chuff", having big moving parts visible, etc, but with a better combination of power, speed capability, route availability, range, etc than any existing design and thus better able to fit in with other main line traffic. There were people keen on that; sadly just not enough of them, though I still wonder whether it would have succeeded with better marketing. At least now some of the principles are being applied to the new Clan.

 

Although the public may not care about the loco hauling their train, it's generally not the public who fund new builds - it's the enthusiast community, who do care about the look/design/history of the loco.


Keith