45690 Leander nameplates.

I can't see that this has been mentioned before, so here goes....
A friend who's a lot more perceptive than I am has noticed that the two nameplates on the loco have different coloured backgrounds. On the driver's side the nameplate has a red background but on the fireman's side it has a black background. Not earth-shattering, but we were just wondering if there was any reason for it.
The only explanation I've been able to think of is that the owner of one nameplate (my money's on the black one) wishes to keep the original paint intact to preserve its originality and value.

 

I can't answer your question but the nameplate colour is not the only difference. On the drivers side (with the red nameplate) the class designation on the cabside is 6P, positioned above the number. On the fireman's side (with the black nameplate) the designation on the cabside is 5XP, positioned below the number. I'm sure that some of our knowledgeable LMS loco experts will have an explaination of this. I believe both versions are historically correct.

Peter James

 

Presumably the Red nameplate and designation are from its BR livery of LMS red and numberplate reflecting BR Power Class 6P5F whilst the Black nameplate and designation would reflect its LMS days reflecting LMS Power Class 5XP (Xpress Passenger). The only query is that in LMS days the locos were in LMS red livery hence being nicknamed Red 5s to differentiate them from the 5MT mixed traffic design that were nicknamed Black 5s

 

Appears the owners are paying dual tribute to Leander's lineage. Handsome loco no matter what is on cabsides.

 

These engines were all painted crimson lake by the LMS, but wartime repaints were plain black, with both variations of the 1946 black livery from that date. Several engines survived the war in red, and thirteen went through Nationalisation still so painted, although at least some with the cabside numbers relocated and how much of the lining remained is conjectural. Additionally, 5594 was repainted red post war, and partially lined out on one side only. I don't know if any of these red survivors received their BR numbers and insignia while still in that colour.

They were classed as 5XP by the LMS (a bit higher than Class 5), but from 1951 BR simplified the system, making them Class 6. Previous Class 6 locos became Class 7, and the Pacifics went from Class 7 to Class 8. All the Jubilees were, by then, in BR Green, but were still referred to by the men as a Red 'un or, more usually, a 5X, and this lasted to the end of steam and well beyond.

I'd be very surprised in 5690 is carrying her original nameplates, which were lost or sold at withdrawal, so preserving the original paint would not be necessary.

 

The power classification changed from 5XP to 6P/5F in January 1951. Fred is not quite right in saying they were always red in LMS days as the livery changed to black with straw lining in 1946. As far as I know 5690 survived to nationalisation in its pre war red and was repainted in March 1948 in lined black with BRITISH RAILWAYS on the tender so the current livery is not quite right for this engine. I'm not sure when it went green but could have been at a HI overhaul in September 1951 or a HG in 1952

 

Thanks all, fascinating stuff. Liveries are a proper minefield, as ever

 

Thanks for the correction re liveries. My experience of the "Jubes" began in 1957 and I am interested to note the different liveries carried by class members.

 

When Chris Beet decided to paint 45690 black, he decided to paint the nameplates as he did, because both red and black were applied in the 1950s, and quite simply, you can't see both at the same time! Likewise the power classification was a variation that may or may not have happened.

To be accurate, for the period when 45690 carried black, it had BRITISH RAILWAYS in full on the tender; paradoxically, 45699 carried the version with the cycling lion. I have seen pictures of both.

JS

 

Thanks James, any chance of seeing 45699 in the livery you mentioned?

 

!!